Revolution controller is revealed

[Zeus]

http://hardware.gamespot.com/Story-ST-15143-2567-x-x-x

And no, it's not a joke. When I first saw it, I thought they were kidding, that it was an early April Fool's joke. It's not. It does have some interesting ideas, particularly the light-gun like sensor on the top and the fact you can add any type of attachements you want (I'm pretty sure Capcom will insist on some sort of attachment for fighting games since this controller is even worse than the 'Cube controller for them). It could allow for some neat ideas, but we'll see.

I really have to see this sucker in action. I was intruiged before, but now I'm just very skeptical that it's going to do anything. We'll see at E3 2005

And just for the record, this is me, Vice Whore of Nintendo, saying something bad and not being an alleged fanboy, a label I've been trying to defend against since I got here. Just so you guys don't forget.

[Nev]

My friend messaged me about it last night. As long as it works, I'll be fine with it...I just hope whatever "transmitter" they're using has high tolerances and is durable, since it seems like their only means of two-axis analog input, unless I missed an analog D-pad on there somewhere.

Something about the article I didn't understand, though, but am VERY curious about, is whether whatever motion detection they're using detects more interesting things than just two-axis analog movement - say, rotational momentum or similar. A clever game designer could do absolutely, ridiculously amazing things with that - for example, for a space shooter, move your arm for increasing velocity, but turn your wrist slightly for a roll (I can't remember what that rotational axis is called, I think it's not pitch or yaw but the other one, hopefully you guys get what I mean.) Or for a fighting game, forward and back would be obvious, and up/down could be jump/duck, but the wrist turn could be a sidestep.

I'd absolutely go nuts over that from both a design standpoint and as a consumer...I can't tell you how many times I've attempted a sidestep in a Tekken title, held up/down a little bit too long, and executed a graceful midair leap instead, usually followed by an opponent's assault to the nuts. (For you Tekken 5 players, I'm sure you'd agree this is a particularly good time if the assualt in question is one of Jinpachi's energy blasts...)

I can't tell whether it's a visual image processing algorithm (since they said it has to be pointed at the screen) with a small camera, or a motion detection thing with either some sort of magnets or some sort of gyroscope...I think any or all of those could detect rotational movement if done right, but I suppose I'll just have to wait and see.

[Zeus]

I don't think they're going to have a gyroscopic sensor in it, would be too expensive and too difficult to use gameplay-wise. I mean, as it is, you'll have to piont it at a screen to play an FPS. Imagine doin' that for 3 hours? I play Time Crisis and my arms are killing me after 30 minutes

[Torgo]

I'm intrigued as to how the controller will be beneficial toward the Revolution's backward compatibility.

[Kupek]

When I first read this story this morning, I was nearly speachless. If Nintendo can pull it off, good for them, but it's a huge gamble.

I don't think they're going to have a gyroscopic sensor in it, would be too expensive and too difficult to use gameplay-wise. I mean, as it is, you'll have to piont it at a screen to play an FPS. Imagine doin' that for 3 hours? I play Time Crisis and my arms are killing me after 30 minutes

The <a href="http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3143782">1up</a> coverage talks about those issues.

I'm intrigued as to how the controller will be beneficial toward the Revolution's backward compatibility.

Turn it sideways, and it's basically an NES controller.

[Nev]

For example, you could slash an in-game sword by actually swinging the controller from side to side, turn a race car just by twisting your wrist, or aim your gun in a shooter by pointing the controller where you want to fire."

Nice, assuming they're right, my guess is it'll detect movement on all axes as well as rotational. That would be a far better controller than anything that's currently out there.

[Torgo]

Turn it sideways, and it's basically an NES controller.

Well yes, but what about the other Nintendo consoles?

For example, you could slash an in-game sword by actually swinging the controller from side to side, turn a race car just by twisting your wrist, or aim your gun in a shooter by pointing the controller where you want to fire."

Wow. After all these years, it will actually make sense to move the controller while you play the game. You know the type: people who lean to the side while your making a turn in a driving game, or people who shake their controller when they jump

[the Gray]

Oh how I love Knee-jerk reactions.

Me? I'm optimistic. It's a leap forward, and time will tell if Nintendo lands successfully, or flat on their ass. I'm betting on the former.

RTFA's that are out there written by those that have actually used the controller. Not the 'Wish List' crap like IGN has up in one article. If this can make gaming 'FUN' again, then kickass.
Oh yeah, and if you don't like it, plug in your Wavebird or GC controller.

From the short demo games, it sounds like it will be a very intuitive device for racing and flying games. With the 'Addons' FPS's and Adventure games shouldn't be difficult to control at all. In fact, the opposite looks to be the case.

I'm open to it. And I'm NOT a Nintendo fanboi.

[Nev]

Oh how I love Knee-jerk reactions..

Huh? I think almost everyone here has been neutral to positive about it. Even Zeus, who claims he's saying "something bad" about it, still wants to see it in action.

I mean, in the larger gaming space, my guess is your reaction is probably appropriate - Scott Ransoomair (the VGCats creator) definitely kneejerked his post about it today, and I imagine a lot of people will talk shit because it doesn't look like what they're used to - but I haven't seen anyone here do that yet.

[Oraclops]

An amputee's dream!

[Lox]

Wow.

I was not expecting anything even close to what that looked like.

My first opinion: looks pretty darned interesting and innovative and I'm excited to see how they'll make use of it.

I like it because it adds something new that might work really well. Of course, it might fail miserably, but I guess we'll see.

[Zeus]

Wow, the depth perception of with the controller really changes things. Basically, fighting games are the only types of games it can't support right now, and they can solve that with an add-on or the use of the GC controller.

Still, I gotta see this thing work. It's far too odd to say what it's going to be like with it in my hands. It's got great possibilities, but who knows if the third party support will be there to help use it. Nintendo can release tons of stuff on its own, but it needs the third parties to make people care in the long term.

Now I really have to go to E3......

[the Gray]

Knee-Jerk reactions refered to VGCats, EvilAvatar etc etc that started talking out of their ass before ever really thinking about it.

Seriously, the more I think about it the more interested I get. Plus, very few have actually used the damn thing yet.

[Eric]

Oh how I love Knee-jerk reactions..

Huh? I think almost everyone here has been neutral to positive about it. Even Zeus, who claims he's saying "something bad" about it, still wants to see it in action.

SPeak for yourself, I think it fucking sucks.

[Tortolia]

http://media.cube.ign.com/articles/651/ ... ids_1.html

Watch the guy swordfighting. Think of, say, a port of Elder Scrolls: Oblivion.

Goddamn, that would own. This is risky as hell, but it has major potential.

Also, EA and Ubisoft seem to be on board...

[Nev]

Oh how I love Knee-jerk reactions..

Huh? I think almost everyone here has been neutral to positive about it. Even Zeus, who claims he's saying "something bad" about it, still wants to see it in action.

SPeak for yourself, I think it fucking sucks.

I said "has been", Mister Pessimister. You hadn't weighed in yet.

[Tortolia]

http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651559p2.html

There'll be a standard controller cradle/dock.

You people still worried about it?

[Lox]

Oh how I love Knee-jerk reactions..

Huh? I think almost everyone here has been neutral to positive about it. Even Zeus, who claims he's saying "something bad" about it, still wants to see it in action.

SPeak for yourself, I think it fucking sucks.

I really don't see how you can make any sort of judgement like that without using the thing or seeing it in use. Why don't you just wait for more information so you can form an intelligent opinion?

I think it looks interesting but I have no way of saying that it'll be as good as I am hoping, not until more information is revealed.

[Lox]

http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651559p2.html

There'll be a standard controller cradle/dock.

You people still worried about it?

I was hoping they'd do something like that.

[Nev]

http://media.cube.ign.com/articles/651/ ... ids_1.html

Watch the guy swordfighting. Think of, say, a port of Elder Scrolls: Oblivion.

Goddamn, that would own. This is risky as hell, but it has major potential.

Also, EA and Ubisoft seem to be on board...

From a developer's point of view (I hope I can call myself that now given what I do from day to day, though I expect my company's first publishing deal will give me true credibility on that), I can see how it could be very, very exciting to many. Truth be told, I wish I were ten years further along in my career with the skills and resources to be working in that space.

Hopefully Nintendo will keep up their reputation for reliable and durable controllers with this one too - I'd say it could easily be the most important one so far to make sure that they get right. I seem to remember that a gaming magazine put all the major controllers through serious stress testing awhile back (in the N64 days), like spilling food on them and leaving it uncleaned for a good period of time and throwing them out of two-story windows, and in several cases the N64 controller was the only one that still worked.

[Eric]

Huh? I think almost everyone here has been neutral to positive about it. Even Zeus, who claims he's saying "something bad" about it, still wants to see it in action.

SPeak for yourself, I think it fucking sucks.

I really don't see how you can make any sort of judgement like that without using the thing or seeing it in use. Why don't you just wait for more information so you can form an intelligent opinion?

I think it looks interesting but I have no way of saying that it'll be as good as I am hoping, not until more information is revealed.

You think it looks interesting, I think it looks ridiculous.

This however has given me hope: <img src="http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/art ... 12-000.jpg">

[Zeus]

Yeah, that GC controller-type shell would essentially eliminate all worries regarding traditional games.....as long as it's included with the system and with each purchase. It would be essential for playing SNES and N64 games.

But that might make the controller purchases a little expensive. You get the remote, the analog attachment, recharge station, and the GC shell all at once (in order to make it viable, that has to all be included at once, IMO), you're lookin' at twice the price of any current controller. That's the only drawback, I see.

Also, it does open up the possibility of all kinds of shells, not just the GC one. That's further reason for having it standard, IMO.

And FYI, that's an IGN-created mock-up, so we don't really know what it'll actually look like.

[Lox]

SPeak for yourself, I think it fucking sucks.

I really don't see how you can make any sort of judgement like that without using the thing or seeing it in use. Why don't you just wait for more information so you can form an intelligent opinion?

I think it looks interesting but I have no way of saying that it'll be as good as I am hoping, not until more information is revealed.

You think it looks interesting, I think it looks ridiculous.

This however has given me hope: <img src="http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/art ... 12-000.jpg">

That's not my point. You think it looks ridiculous, that's fine. You don't know that it will be until you get some hands-on or see someone using it hands-on. So until then, you have no good basis to know it'll suck.

[Torgo]

Okay. I feel much better now.

[Eric]

I really don't see how you can make any sort of judgement like that without using the thing or seeing it in use. Why don't you just wait for more information so you can form an intelligent opinion?

I think it looks interesting but I have no way of saying that it'll be as good as I am hoping, not until more information is revealed.

You think it looks interesting, I think it looks ridiculous.

This however has given me hope: <img src="http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/art ... 12-000.jpg">

That's not my point. You think it looks ridiculous, that's fine. You don't know that it will be until you get some hands-on or see someone using it hands-on. So until then, you have no good basis to know it'll suck.

Hush Loxy K. ;p

[Lox]

You think it looks interesting, I think it looks ridiculous.

This however has given me hope: <img src="http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/art ... 12-000.jpg">

That's not my point. You think it looks ridiculous, that's fine. You don't know that it will be until you get some hands-on or see someone using it hands-on. So until then, you have no good basis to know it'll suck.

Hush Loxy K. ;p

Shaddup, Eric!

[SineSwiper]

Enuff said...

[Lox]

Enuff said...

Ah, yes, the Power Glove.

Though I hope you're not serious about that as an argument against the Revolution controller and are posting it for nostalgia's sake.

Just because a lame 3rd party peripheral with no support behind it sucked means absolutely zero when the Revolution is going to make this it's standard controller.

[SineSwiper]

Third-party? I did not know that? I retract the comparison then.

In any case, this new controller is shit. Total shit. It's going to slip Nintendo into a last place mode again.

Have you seen the video? Mario jumps with the damn thing. It makes my hand tired just thinking about all of the work I have to do just to get Mario to jump over a fucking enemy. Okay, now do that for a few hours. Pushing a button requires zero effort. The rest of the video is mostly geared towards stupid Japanese-only games. (Hey, this is the company that gave you fucking drums with a game, because hey, pushing buttons would lose the gimmick.)

That controller is going to stick into that slot for 99% of the time, and games that force you to use it will get low ratings. (Hi guys... did you ever think of FUCKING ERGONAMICS?!?) Developers will pass on shitty technology, because they just want to make fucking games.

[Tortolia]

Say what you will. The Revolution controller is the only thing making me even remotely interested in the next generation of consoles.

[Zeus]

Enuff said...

Ah, yes, the Power Glove.

Though I hope you're not serious about that as an argument against the Revolution controller and are posting it for nostalgia's sake.

Just because a lame 3rd party peripheral with no support behind it sucked means absolutely zero when the Revolution is going to make this it's standard controller.

PowerGlove was made by Nintendo, that's why they released the two gamaes for it (Gloveball and that fighting game) and put it in The Wizard.

Still, it's nothing like it at all and the glove was what, 15 years ago? Of course, technology has hardly advanced in that time period, thus it would be a legitamite argument against the remote... :-)

[Nev]

I wanted it before due to the download service for their older consoles, but I somewhat agree with Tort in that I think this could have the most exciting possibilities for gaming of anything I've seen recently.

Sine, I am a developer now, and I think you are completely, utterly wrong about this being shitty technology. As I said before, if I were working in console space, I would jump at the chance to make games for this input method. It allows flexibility that was not before possible. I've thought about how to solve the problem of getting more than two axes out of your primary input method, and I'd come up with an idea about how to get three out of a different controller design, but even that didn't include rotational movement the way this one does.

There will probably be developers who won't want to make games for it, who aren't keen on the amount of work required to make use of an input method that supports three axes of distance and three of rotation, but I have no doubt that there will be some who will want to as well. The question is whether or not there will be enough to make it a viable technology. I'll be hoping, though.

[SineSwiper]

Hey, for cell phones, great. They are portable and the games are fairly short (or at least used for short bouts). But, using this device in the long term is going to be terrible on the hands. One, the remote thingy itself is not ergonomical at all. Two, having to worry about not tilting the device while you're trying to relax and play a damn game is a big issue. Sometimes you DON'T want that many axies of movement. Really, it's not a matter of innovation, but practicality. Common sense was thrown out the window with this idea.

it seems like Nintendo is on an input controller frenzy here lately. They are trying too hard, and it's biting them in the ass. They seem to bet the farm on these wild ideas. This will be like the Dreamcast visual display, or the Virtual Boy.

I love VG Cats quote: Nintendo's new controller is out. Congratulations Nintendo, you've created what looks like a sex toy. Complete with rumble pack. Well, it was a fun company while it lasted.

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

Sine, please wait until you actually use the goddamned thing. You have no idea of the level of movement it will require.

They are trying too hard, and it's biting them in the ass.

How is it biting them in the ass? The DS is going from strength to strength, and the Revolution controller is generating as much interest as the (frankly boring) launches of the PS3 and XBox 360 did at E3.

My first thought when I saw the controller: Nintendo have gone completely BATSHIT INSANE. After reading that article at 1UP I started thinking, "Hey, maybe they're not so crazy. That seems sorta cool." I'm now completely primed for it, and I'm more excited about the Revolution than I am about the other next-gen consoles.

[Tortolia]

Does anyone at all remember that article linked a few months back about Nintendo's finances?

You know, the one that pointed out that Nintendo is more profitable than all of Sony?

Yeah, they're surely going to bankrupt! SELL THEIR STOCK NOW

[Zeus]

Hey, for cell phones, great. They are portable and the games are fairly short (or at least used for short bouts). But, using this device in the long term is going to be terrible on the hands. One, the remote thingy itself is not ergonomical at all. Two, having to worry about not tilting the device while you're trying to relax and play a damn game is a big issue. Sometimes you DON'T want that many axies of movement. Really, it's not a matter of innovation, but practicality. Common sense was thrown out the window with this idea.

Wow, and people call me biased.

One, Nintendo has always created very ergonomic controllers. Whether or not they were the best for the types of games you play, they've always been very ergonomic and comfy. And considering they know a helluva lot more about ergonomics than either you or I, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on how ergonomic it is 'til I try it.

Two, I agree that there are some real issues regarding the whole interactivity thing. That's my main beef with it and why I'm skeptical. I've played Time Crisis for hours on end, I know how tiring it gets to hold a damned controller up for that long. But that doesn't mean that it's going to be the only set up you can use or that it's not going to work, especially considering how small that thing is. Don't forget, it comes with the analog stick and the D-pad, even FPSs can be used with that set up if you're so against it (analog for mouse look and D-pad for movement; not ideal, but possible, and that's before you even mention the shell docking stations).

So, any complaints about practicality and common sense are completely unfounded. Especially since you haven't even tried the fucking thing yet. Thing is is so weird that just for once, throw you anti-Nintendo bias out the window and try the damned thing before you hate it rather than vice versa.

And before you go around calling me a fanboy, remember, I've had more skepticism about this thing here aside from you and Eric.

[Zeus]

Does anyone at all remember that article linked a few months back about Nintendo's finances?

You know, the one that pointed out that Nintendo is more profitable than all of Sony?

Yeah, they're surely going to bankrupt! SELL THEIR STOCK NOW

Heh, yeah. They might not be number one, but year after year they're the most profitable and prolific publisher, and that's not even including any money they might make off the hardware (by now, the GBA and GC are profitable on hardware).

But they're not cool, so they can't be profitable.....

[SineSwiper]

So, any complaints about practicality and common sense are completely unfounded. Especially since you haven't even tried the fucking thing yet. Thing is is so weird that just for once, throw you anti-Nintendo bias out the window and try the damned thing before you hate it rather than vice versa.

Hey, you started this thread bashing the thing, not I.

One, Nintendo has always created very ergonomic controllers. Whether or not they were the best for the types of games you play, they've always been very ergonomic and comfy. And considering they know a helluva lot more about ergonomics than either you or I, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on how ergonomic it is 'til I try it.

Yeah, this coming from the guys that gave you the NES controller, the N64 analog stick, and the GBA-SP. Oh, let's not forget the amount of pain and eye strain you had to do just to get the Virtual Boy to work. Face it; Nintendo will throw out sensability for a little bit of innovation. ("CD loading times are way too long to use in the N64.")

[Lox]

PowerGlove was made by Nintendo, that's why they released the two gamaes for it (Gloveball and that fighting game) and put it in The Wizard.

I wasn't sure so I looked it up and it was manufactured by Mattel but I didn't see that it was licensed by Nintendo, thereby making it an official Nintendo product.

[Nev]

Sometimes you DON'T want that many axies of movement.

As a developer I can remind you of something you may not be thinking of, which is that a developer is free to use OR ignore any inputs that he/she desires. You know this, Sine - you're a programmer. A third-party library could easily provide you with information which you consider optional and end up not using.

[Eric]

I don't understand how you can complain about the X-Box's core and non-core systems, and then not be at all worried about a ridiculous controller that doesn't appeal to the masses.

[Nev]

Me or Lox? I haven't done a bit of complaining about that as far as I know, other than the hard drive concerns I had. I think those are still valid.

[Nev]

Scott Ramsoomair weighs in on the issue in a way that includes droolworthy graphics and (at least in my opinion) a heapin' helpin' of kneeslappery.

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/

I might not agree with him, but it's hellzapoppin' funny. Seems he still hasn't forgiven Nintendo for Crystal Chronicles...

[Eric]

Scott Ramsoomair weighs in on the issue in a way that includes droolworthy graphics and (at least in my opinion) a heapin' helpin' of kneeslappery.

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/

I might not agree with him, but it's hellzapoppin' funny. Seems he still hasn't forgiven Nintendo for Crystal Chronicles...

^Signed.

[Nev]

What?

And by the way, do you ever sleep? I see you posting at like 3AM Lousiana time sometimes, and now again at 8AM...

[Lox]

I don't understand how you can complain about the X-Box's core and non-core systems, and then not be at all worried about a ridiculous controller that doesn't appeal to the masses.

Assuming you're directing this to me, it's easy:

I think the Nintendo controller has potential and will help to promote innovative and unique ways to play games while still allowing (hopefully!) the ability for games to be made in a way that the general public is used to. And truthfully, if anyone can pull off a ridiculous looking controller (I admit it's weird looking), then Nintendo can. They're making this the core controller which basically sticks the functionality right there in the middle of everything and will hopefully entice developers to use it.

Microsoft, on the other hand, is splitting the system-base between people who buy the core (which I think is a waste of money) and people who buy the upgraded system. Developers have already said that Microsoft is basically saying "design games as if there is no harddrive" which is squelching innovation. I don't know that developers would take better advantage of the HD than they did in the X-Box, but if they want to get the biggest return on their investment, they probably won't.

So, I can complain about the X-Box 360 and not about the Revolution controller because I think Nintendo is taking a chance that could very well pay off. I think Microsoft's just using a dumb marketing strategy.

Phew.

[Zeus]

Yeah, this coming from the guys that gave you the NES controller, the N64 analog stick, and the GBA-SP. Oh, let's not forget the amount of pain and eye strain you had to do just to get the Virtual Boy to work. Face it; Nintendo will throw out sensability for a little bit of innovation. ("CD loading times are way too long to use in the N64.")

Whoa, hold on a sec, are you actually saying that the NES controller wasn't comfy? Considering at the time no one knew what the word "ergonomics" meant AND that it changed the way you play video games (before then, everyone thought that it was arcade sticks or nothing), it was HUGE at the time and not exactly horrible on the hands. Considering that it was WAAAY easier on your hands than the original Xbox controller, which was only good for sasquatches, it was a pretty damned good feat for the time. Give credit where credit is due.

As well, as I mentioned before, it's not about whether or not you liked the controller, but whether or not it was ergonomic. This was the basis of the argument. And you really can't deny the fact that the N64 controller was very comfy. We're not talking about whether or not it was good but whether or not it was comfy.

I've played the SP for hours on end and have had no issues, but I can see some sasquatches who liked the original Xbox controller hating it. It's not perfect, but it's not horrid, either.

And yeah, I agree on the Virtual Boy. It was one of the worst systems ever made. But they owed Yokoi one for the GB (and still do), so they let him do what he wanted. Didn't bother me much playing it for hours, but it was a strain on both the eyes for most and the neck for looking into it.

They were right about the CDs, IMO. One of the things that still bother me about using the non-cartridge based systems is the long loading times. The GC does fix this a bit and offers far less loading times, but it's noticable. That's the one advantage of carts over discs. Of course, it killed Nintendo's number one spot, but this argument is about ergonomics, so we'll kill this argument later.

And I started this thread with a lot of skepticism, not bashing. I was annoyed at it and have no idea what the hell they're doing and didn't think that it'll work well in the mass market, but I at least am reserving final judgement until I use the thing. This was the entire reason for my response to your rant to begin with.

[Zeus]

I don't understand how you can complain about the X-Box's core and non-core systems, and then not be at all worried about a ridiculous controller that doesn't appeal to the masses.

The systems is a marketing thing. It's a stupid marketing decision and has been proven to be so in the past (see Sega CD and 32X). Developers will always develop to the lowest common denominator, so the HD will likely be very useless.

Whether or not the controller will appeal to the masses remains to be seen. It's so simplistic it just might. It is ridiculous, I agree, but that doesn't mean the masses won't like it. What I think is that the masses won't even try it. Don't forget, the masses aren't the hardcore games, we only make up a total of about 50% of the gaming population (people who only buy sports or racing games aren't hardcore) at absolute most and are a fraction of the populace. They're hoping it appeals to the others, not us. I, like you, just disagree

[SineSwiper]

Whoa, hold on a sec, are you actually saying that the NES controller wasn't comfy? Considering at the time no one knew what the word "ergonomics" meant AND that it changed the way you play video games (before then, everyone thought that it was arcade sticks or nothing), it was HUGE at the time and not exactly horrible on the hands. Considering that it was WAAAY easier on your hands than the original Xbox controller, which was only good for sasquatches, it was a pretty damned good feat for the time. Give credit where credit is due.

The NES controller was a box with buttons. It wasn't comfy by any means, but then again, it was really old tech.

And you really can't deny the fact that the N64 controller was very comfy. We're not talking about whether or not it was good but whether or not it was comfy.

Well, most games used the analog stick, and the analog stick was DEFINATELY not comfy. It hurt my thumb to stretch that far (and yes, I was holding it right). That's been my main bitch about it for close to five years. Obviously, something was wrong with the controller because they changed it on the GC.

I've played the SP for hours on end and have had no issues, but I can see some sasquatches who liked the original Xbox controller hating it. It's not perfect, but it's not horrid, either.

Playing the SP for hours on end is alright... as long as you're not using the trigger buttons. Horrible, horrible placement, and it proves my point. They would rather have the thing designed like a box than having accessable trigger buttons.

And I think the VG Cats argument is spot on. Hell, I haven't forgiven Nintendo for Crystal Chronicles either. What a way to totally fuck up another potential Secret of Mana!

[Lox]

And I think the VG Cats argument is spot on. Hell, I haven't forgiven Nintendo for Crystal Chronicles either. What a way to totally fuck up another potential Secret of Mana!

Haha, that's funny.

Crystal Chronicles was in no way a potential Secret of Mana, imo. Secret of Mana was fun. Crystal Chronicles got old real quick.