FFXII non-spoiler talk

[Kupek]

I'm not even getting close to that other, land-mine ridden thread. (I have user colors turned off since most of you have a color aesthetic that makes my eyes bleed, which also means most spoilers are in plain sight.)

So I caved and bought the game yesterday. I'm four hours in and I think the new battle system is a huge improvement. In just about every other Final Fantasy, I would just do "Attack, Attack, Attack, Heal, Attack" for almost all of the battles. I reckognized a while ago that there was no stragety involved for the majority of the gameplay. So the auto battle stuff is wonderful for that.

And no random battles! Fucking finally! I tried replaying FF9 a while back and I just got fed up with the random battles. I have no patience for them anymore. I think it's amazing that this problem was solved way back with <i>Chrono Trigger</i> and we're finally getting it integrated into Final Fantasy. FFXII's system is superior to CT, of course, because there's no transition at all from exploring to battle.

I haven't gotten far enough to experiment with the gambit system, but I think I'll like it. Mainly because as soon as they introduced the system, I reckognized it for what it really is: scripts. They basically give you a simplified interface to write scripts for how your characters should react.

So I'm happy with the battle system. This is the first RPG I've played in... I don't know how long that actually feels original. The first boss battle had the speed of of an action RPG but I don't have to spend time building action game skills, and I get to control the whole fight. I think this is the natural progression of RPG battles.

[Flip]

I'm only 6 hours or so in right now and am still mixed on the battle system.

I like the BATTLES themselves, because they dont zoom, are relatively quick, and you can see the monsters, like Kup said, but still am unsure about the system as a whole. The gambits and the nature of the system is very set it and forget it, which is similar to all the MMO's that i tried and eventually quit. Shouldnt the battles require thought? So far, only the boss ones have required me to take off my leaders gambits, so for the rest of the game i am only running around and the party does its thing. It feels like coach mode in a football game, when i would rather play the game.

I do like the story and characters so far and like to tinker with the equipment and liscence board, but think that it is lame how i can just play the actual game with just the run stick.

[Kupek]

Do you really think that, say, FF6 or FF7 battles required any more thought? All they've really done is remove the tedium of needing to tell your characters what to do every action.

[Flip]

I thought about that after i posted. You are right, really what this system does is eliminate random battles boringness while still providing exp, money and liscence points... which i guess isnt all that bad. In the past, the boss battles were the only hard fights and FF12 continues this in a unique way. Since the boss battles and the story/characters are good, i shouldnt complain that it is easier to get to those points.

[Zeus]

Chrono Trigger was still random battles. Just 'cause you could see them coming, don't mean they weren't still random. 7th Saga's radar gave you the illusion of being able to dodge the enemies, but you really couldn't in a lot of cases.

Haven't played FF12 yet, but we still haven't seen non-random battles in a traditional console RPG I've played. I've been dying for them to get rid of random battles, I really do believe they're a thing of the past and better left there.

[Julius Seeker]

In FF12 you can run past most battles. Gambits, once you get up into the later stages of the game you will thank god that Square invented this system =P

There are some gambit strategies in the other thread.

[Kupek]

CT battles were not random. You could see them coming and you could avoid them if you wanted to. The enemies in an area were also finite. Occasionaly there were scripted points where fighting was unavoidable, but never random. With FFs and their clones, every step triggered a call to a random number generator, and if that random number fell in some range, you entered a battle. (I haven't seen the code, obviously, but that's the most reasonable way to implement it.)

[Julius Seeker]

Actually, in the other thread, if you switch colors back to normal, anything that is even a minor spoiler is hidden. Even the stuff that is under cover does not reveal anything too significant about the story, nothing above a minor spoiler. Anyways, I am at the 50 hour mark now, so far this is the longest Final Fantasy game I have ever played by about 10 hours, Final Fantasy 9 I finished in 42 hours I think, which was the longest beforehand. FF7, 8, and 10 were all about 30-35. Anything before those games was under 20.

SOME VERY HELPFUL TIPS This stuff is all available in the tutorial stuff in the game for the most part, though some of the stuff was from experimentation. There are no story spoilers, it is just an explanation of gameplay mechanics, and ways to use them.

1) Sell all of your loot, it is important in order to gain cash and get new items at the bazaar (which can be accessed at any shop in the game)

'some say to keep the Serpent skin, I am not sure exactly what the purpose is, I am thinking that it has something to do with an optional most powerful weapon, along with a number of other things. From what I hear, there are different ways to get the most powerful weapon in the game, there is one way that is very easy in comparison to the rest. I am just skipping it altogether, I doubt I will require it to finish the game, I'll use an FAQ sometime in the future to get it when I have finished the game.

2) Do not bother leveling up, getting LP, etc, extensively. If you wish to, wait until you are able to buy accessories called "Gold Amulet" I won't tell you what they do, but you'll understand what I mean when you get them.

3) Put Gambits like this, in this order:

-If Foe HP =100% then steal (on your lead character only)
-If allie HP <70% then cure (change to Curaga later, move % down to 50%, and Curaja even later and % down to 30%)
-if allie HP<10% then Raise/Phoenix Down (change this to if allie status =KO)
-If allie = Sleep/Sap then Esuna
-split tasks between characters when you get gambits to make sure that everyone has ways to heal from ailments (blind, poison, etc..) there won't be enough slots to put all the gambits on everyone, so split the tasks.
-Target leaders target
-attack nearest foe

4) On the License chart (this is obvious) go for the augments first. The only thing that should take priority over these are Licenses for equipment and magic you need, when they are available.

Quickenings, you will notice on the license board, if you are close to getting one, go for it. I find it is best to stack them on characters in order, so if Vaan gets the first quickening, he should also get the second and third.

[Don]

The gambit system basically just automates what you'd otherwise do. I don't know if it's an improvement but it reduces the boredom.

The limitation of gambit is fairly contrived. You can say 'any ally cast protect' and they know not to cast protect on someone with protect. If you have 'ally HP < 70% cast cure' they know not to double up on heals unless needed. But something like 'if enemy hp = 100% steal' they won't stop even if you succeeded stealing, or 'if enemy hp critical poach' they would never stop even if the enemy cannot be poached. I find that I often end up having to have the person with the steal gambit to manually attack everything once stealing is successful or they'll just happily steal for the rest of the fight while other people are dying, and I don't see why the AI for steal has to be dumb while the same setting works for Protect or Cures.

[Flip]

...and the whole point of this thread is done.

[Julius Seeker]

The gambit system basically just automates what you'd otherwise do. I don't know if it's an improvement but it reduces the boredom.

The limitation of gambit is fairly contrived. You can say 'any ally cast protect' and they know not to cast protect on someone with protect. If you have 'ally HP < 70% cast cure' they know not to double up on heals unless needed. But something like 'if enemy hp = 100% steal' they won't stop even if you succeeded stealing, or 'if enemy hp critical poach' they would never stop even if the enemy cannot be poached. I find that I often end up having to have the person with the steal gambit to manually attack everything once stealing is successful or they'll just happily steal for the rest of the fight while other people are dying, and I don't see why the AI for steal has to be dumb while the same setting works for Protect or Cures.

Yeah, the stealing and poaching are the main things that could be improved, it should be set to stop stealing once it has been successful. Though usually I don't really let it bother me since the thief will usually only steal a maximum of twice; the other characters are normally right there to deal damage at the same time or before the stealing takes place.

[Manshoon]

It would be nice if there was a Mug ability you could learn, that would take care of the whole stealing issue. I'm tempted to turn off Stealing altogether at this point since I've probably got enough gil/loot to last me the rest of the game and being able to use Firaga/Blizzaga/Thundaga regularly could let me blow through stuff quicker. But I'm sure there's going to be some incredibly rare items you can only get through stealing from bosses and such, like in FF9.