Marion Jones admits to doping

[Nev]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/05/jones. ... index.html

I actually gained a lot of respect and love for her after reading this. She's got a lot of courage to fess up to it, particularly in the climate of ugly steroid stonewalling that goes on in pro athletics all the time these days. Yeah, she'll likely lose her medals (and I think probably she should), but dignity is worth a *lot* more than that, and she's got it in spades right now the way I see things.

[Oracle]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/05/jones. ... index.html

I actually gained a lot of respect and love for her after reading this. She's got a lot of courage to fess up to it, particularly in the climate of ugly steroid stonewalling that goes on in pro athletics all the time these days. Yeah, she'll likely lose her medals (and I think probably she should), but dignity is worth a *lot* more than that, and she's got it in spades right now the way I see things.

Heh, sorry, but too late.

Great she developed a conscience and all, but no real sympathy here.

[Nev]

I disagree.

Speaking as someone who likey to smoke teh marijuwanna and work out - I *love* doing this - the realization that (were I actually any kind of athlete) I'd be barred from athletic competitions worldwide for using "performance-enhancing drugs" kind of makes me feel like I don't really have a platform to judge from. (It also makes me feel like our definitions of "performance-enhancing drugs" are kind of beans, but that's a different story.)

Steroids are different a bit, and much, much riskier, but pro athletics is silly with them now. My guess is it's probably a high double-digit percentage of pro athletes using *some* sort of chemically based performance booster - I'm guessing like 30%, 50%, or even 70% at this point. That shit is most highly pervasive.

Yeah, she doped, but it's a bad problem anyway. Doping does not make you a star athlete on its own - even *with doping* only the most dedicated really make it to the top. Plus, there will be consequences - they might strip the whole relay team she was on of their gold medals, and I don't envy anyone who's gotta live with that. It's not like "we're" letting her off the hook, and I do think her own Olympic medals should probably be stripped, and probably will be.

I'm still gonna give Marion a *hell* of a lot more credit than, say, Chris Benoit.

[Kupek]

Admitting your mistakes after being caught isn't particularly noble. If she had admitted to doping soon after winning, without any external pressure, then maybe I'd waste time to notice.

Anyway, I think you might be underestimating the difference steroids, HGH and other hormones can make: http://outside.away.com/outside/bodywor ... est_1.html

[Nev]

No, Kupek, I'm just givng her credit for having the balls - so to speak - to actually admit to it and maybe lose her medals. I ain't seen Barry Bonds do it yet. Keep being judgemental if you want, but to me she's a fine athlete no matter what. I don't give a shit if people use steroids, really, I just hate the lying. And yeah, she did for some time, now things are better.

Sometimes I feel like you come down too hard on people who use illegal drugs of any sort. I'm well aware of the peformance boost given by steroids. And amen. I personally know for a fact that I couldn't work out as hard or as long as I do without being high - you'll probably call me an idiot for this, exposing even more of your prejudices, and failing to note that a simple ECA stack is far more dangerous - and I love it. I might get skinny on weed for the first time in my life. I dislike it when people abuse steroids, but that's not going away, and not every user is an abuser - R.I.P., Chris Benoit and his family.

So what exactly is wrong with the performance boosters themselves?

[Kupek]

Yeah, I don't have time for this. I've actually been avoiding the shrine for that reason. So, sorry, I can't spend an hour explaining my reasoning and disabusing you of bizarre misconceptions of my position.

[Nev]

Then run away, little moogle...go back to your nice academic world where you can say you don't have time for social discussions. But don't start things you can't finish.

I'm sorry, but it's been too shitty a night to watch you pretend you're better than me again. I expected better of you - if you don't want to handle what I have to say, keep your mouth shut. Avoid the Shrine for as long as you need to, but drop the condescension when you come back.

I'd be nicer, but it's been a shitty night, as I said.

[Nev]

Bleah. That wasn't what I wanted to say at all, after all. I'd actually come in hoping to praise this place as a refuge or oasis from the madness.

Kup, I respect you a lot nearly all of the time. The only time I don't, and when I start talking like this, is when you say things like "I don't have time for this." You have time to come in and comment on the thread, you have time to say "I don't have time for this", then really you probably do. If you really didn't have time, I wouldn't have seen a thing at all.

You're such an honest and genuine person most of the time that it saddens me to see you toss something so offhand as you did to this thread. I think admitting one's mistakes is among the most noble of things a human can do. Don't mistake my warmth towards her with the same kind of warmth that people had when she won the medals in the first place. To me, what she has now is a very different - less prestigious but in some ways more dignified - kind of glory.

I'll leave it to you whether or not you want to comment further. If you really don't have time, I understand.