Fuck White People, man.

[RentCavalier]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/25/sea ... index.html

Fucking pigs. Since when did justice stop looking in the mirror?

[Blotus]

Racist.

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

Title should be Fuck Authority. Two of the officers involved were black.

[kali o.]

So the "heart" of the case revolves around a bunch of drunk guys clearing outta a club after a party, ignoring police orders and apparently trying to run down officers?

Boohoo.

[Eric]

So the "heart" of the case revolves around a bunch of drunk guys clearing outta a club after a party, ignoring police orders and apparently trying to run down officers?

Boohoo.

They didn't identify themselves as officers, they were dressed casually. The victims saw guns, they panicked, and tried to drive off.

What happened next was at the heart of the trial, prosecuted by the assistant district attorney in Queens.

Bell, Guzman and Trent Benefield got into the car, with Bell at the wheel. The detectives drew their weapons, said Guzman and Benefield, who testified that they never heard the plainclothes detectives identify themselves as police.

Bell was in a panic to get away from the armed men, his friends testified.

But the detectives thought Bell was trying to run down one of them, believed that their lives were in danger and started shooting, according to their lawyers.

A total of 50 bullets were fired by five NYPD officers. Only three were charged with crimes.

No gun was found near Bell or his friends.

[Julius Seeker]

Fuck the police
Comin straight from the underground
Young nigga got it bad cuz I'm brown
And not the other color so police think
They have the authority to kill a minority


I know you're family's grieven, fuck em!
Cop killer, tonight we get even.
Fuck the police!
Fuck the police!

Police on the scene
You know what I mean
They passed me up, confronted all the dope fiends
If there was a problem
Yo, I'll solve it
Check out the hook while my DJ revolves it
Ice Ice Baby,

[RentCavalier]

So the "heart" of the case revolves around a bunch of drunk guys clearing outta a club after a party, ignoring police orders and apparently trying to run down officers?

Boohoo.

They didn't identify themselves as officers, they were dressed casually. The victims saw guns, they panicked, and tried to drive off.

What happened next was at the heart of the trial, prosecuted by the assistant district attorney in Queens.

Bell, Guzman and Trent Benefield got into the car, with Bell at the wheel. The detectives drew their weapons, said Guzman and Benefield, who testified that they never heard the plainclothes detectives identify themselves as police.

Bell was in a panic to get away from the armed men, his friends testified.

But the detectives thought Bell was trying to run down one of them, believed that their lives were in danger and started shooting, according to their lawyers.

A total of 50 bullets were fired by five NYPD officers. Only three were charged with crimes.

No gun was found near Bell or his friends.

On top of that, this was all before the guy's wedding. I mean, it's ridiculous--if they're attacking in a car, shoot the fucking tires. You don't use 50 bullets to gun down the people driving. They didn't just murder him--they pereforated the poor bastard, and NOW they're getting off?

Fuck that.

[Kupek]

If you're going to talk about it, you should read the actual verdict by the judge: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/p ... RDICT3.pdf

I don't know enough about what happened to judge if it was murder, manslaughter, or neither. But I don't think the number of bullets is relevant; the only one that matters is the first one. If cops shoot once, they shoot many, many times. That's how they're trained. They're also trained to shoot when other cops shoot. They probably had 9mms with 12 rounds each. So if five cops are there, and one fires a single shot, another 59 rounds will follow.

[SineSwiper]

Dude, 31 times. This is how long 31 times is: http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-15443. The guy's dead. There's no reason to keep shooting.

Though, I have to admit that there was incompetence at both sides.

[EsquE]

Sorry, soon as I see Sharpton I instinctively root for whoever he's protesting. The man is nothing but a race baiting piece of shit. If the two black cops had gone to jail he'd probably have been going after the judge for being racist.

It was a fucking accident...shit happens, and crucifying these cops won't change a goddam thing. Yeah there are dickhead cops...but this was 5 cops, doing their job, feeling they were threatened and reacting like ANYONE would. It's fucking tragic...so why pile tragedy on top of it by trying to ruin the lives of who might actually be some good men.

[Kupek]

Again, cops are trained to keep shooting. I know how long it takes to empty a clip.

Mentioning the number of bullets clouds the issue. That's not what it's about. What matters is why they started firing.

[kali o.]

On top of that, this was all before the guy's wedding. I mean, it's ridiculous--if they're attacking in a car, shoot the fucking tires. You don't use 50 bullets to gun down the people driving. They didn't just murder him--they pereforated the poor bastard, and NOW they're getting off?

Fuck that.

Dude? Seriously?! Before his wedding!? OMFG, that changes EVERYTHING!

....

I suspected you were a fucking retard after your original post...this follow-up just confirmed it.

[Chris]

On top of that, this was all before the guy's wedding. I mean, it's ridiculous--if they're attacking in a car, shoot the fucking tires. You don't use 50 bullets to gun down the people driving. They didn't just murder him--they pereforated the poor bastard, and NOW they're getting off?

Fuck that.

Dude? Seriously?! Before his wedding!? OMFG, that changes EVERYTHING!

....

I suspected you were a fucking retard after your original post...this follow-up just confirmed it.

I think we may have found Kali a new Mental chewtoy

[SineSwiper]

If it wasn't for the wedding, this wouldn't have happened.

Because establishments known as "strip clubs" often generate criminal activity including prostitution and narcotics, the Police Dept. Club Enforcement Unit was given the task of infiltrating such places and pursuing violations of law that would lead toward shutting them down.

See? These police were tasked with the duty of shutting down establishments known as "strip clubs", because they are evil and contain boobies and alcohol. Now if he hadn't gotten engaged, he would have never had a bachelor party, never have gotten so drunk that he couldn't drive a car, never had strip-club-busting cops going after him, never had a cop think that any sort of hand movement means he's getting out a gun, never had Officer Jimbo Kern say "He's coming right for us!" and pump him full of so many bullets that Charlton Heston pops out of his grave and say "Alright! That's enough! He's fucking dead already! I'm just trying to get some sleep, asshole!"

So, the moral of the story is to never get married. It could kill you.

[RentCavalier]

If you're going to talk about it, you should read the actual verdict by the judge: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/p ... RDICT3.pdf

I don't know enough about what happened to judge if it was murder, manslaughter, or neither. But I don't think the number of bullets is relevant; the only one that matters is the first one. If cops shoot once, they shoot many, many times. That's how they're trained. They're also trained to shoot when other cops shoot. They probably had 9mms with 12 rounds each. So if five cops are there, and one fires a single shot, another 59 rounds will follow.

That's all well and good, but the reason they started firing is not a valid one at all.

We train cops to shoot over and over and over? That seems to me that we're just training cops to kill people. It's the point that they gunned the gun down for no reason than suspecting he might attack them.

You ever look at the people who become cops? Half of them are people who either screwed up somewhere along the line and their options are the military or the police force. These are regular people, an organized and well-financed gang of individuals who, by some god-given right, are allowed to kill people indiscriminately and not be bothered by it.

Give me a gun, I shoot somebody with it because I was worried they might attack me, I'll go to jail.

The cop, on the other hand? He's immune, because he somehow has the right and the privelage to be able to decide who lives and who dies. The fact of the matter is that the officers in this situation had a variety of other options: they could have shot out the car's tires, they could have just wounded him, they could have at least FUCKING IDENTIFIED themselves as COPS, for crying out loud.

From his perspective, all of a sudden, a bunch of guys are pulling out guns and shouting at him. If you were in his shoes, what would you do? Like most of us, he panicked and tried to get out of there, and for THAT CRIME--the crime of being afraid of five armed men--he and another man were brutally gunned down.

The fact of the matter is, the police force as it is today is almost a bigger problem than the criminals they try to fight. There's no difference between the two--except that one of them gets to kill people and not be punished, and the others do not.

I'm a proponent of law and order, but taking a life and preserving peace and stability are NOT one and the same. If you are claiming to "serve and protect" the common people, you should start by not KILLING the common people.

I don't want to have a bunch of armed men walking around who are capable of shooting me based upon a single suspicion. Police officers should resort to violence only in a last resort, and even then, they should only shoot to kill if they are being shot at first. Yeah, sure, they have the risk of being killed, but frankly, it's a fair trade. They are stalwart protectors of justice, right? They should walk a higher path than this.

This sickens me. This is what is wrong with our police nowadays. There's no discretion, there's no double-standard. When five people gun down two, it is not a fight, it is not a battle, it is a murder--a slaughter, and when the hell have we ever condoned murder for anyone? Life is sacred, and those charged with our protection should FUCKING remember that.

I don't believe in Hell, but I do believe that there's some kind of punishment for people who believe they can decide who lives and who does not. This was not a judgement call. This was overreaction by a bunch of trigger-happy cops going after a black guy who had BROKEN NO LAWS.

What crime had he committed?

What sin had he done?

What did he do that made him deserve death?

He was celebrating what should have been one of the happiest nights of his life. Weddings are inherently beautiful things (outside of those tacky one-night stand Vegas affairs, but that's a whole other issue). Comparing a man who was about to start a family, who was about to marry a woman he loved and god help us have some kids and generally become a full adult to a bunch of men who shoot a man for no reason than SUSPICION, and I ask you:

Where the fuck is the justice in that?

[SineSwiper]

Rent,

Also, carelessness and incompetence are not standards to be applied here, unless the conduct rises to the level of criminal acts, as defined by the law relating to each count charged.

So, I don't think that even the judge didn't think that the actions of the cop were stupid, but not enough to be criminally stupid. Also, there's that "reasonable doubt" thing. We prefer to let potential criminals go, instead of potentially throwing an innocent person in jail, because that is how our justice system works.

Also, one thing I've learned from jury duty is that no trial is ever brought to the courtroom with a jury unless there are fuzzy details on both sides. All of the cut-and-dry cases end up getting plea bargained with quick guilty verdicts.

[RentCavalier]

Rent,

Also, carelessness and incompetence are not standards to be applied here, unless the conduct rises to the level of criminal acts, as defined by the law relating to each count charged.

So, I don't think that even the judge didn't think that the actions of the cop were stupid, but not enough to be criminally stupid. Also, there's that "reasonable doubt" thing. We prefer to let potential criminals go, instead of potentially throwing an innocent person in jail, because that is how our justice system works.

Also, one thing I've learned from jury duty is that no trial is ever brought to the courtroom with a jury unless there are fuzzy details on both sides. All of the cut-and-dry cases end up getting plea bargained with quick guilty verdicts.

Maybe I'm just a bit upset at it, but...you know, there ought to be something, you know? I would like to think that there was at least some scrap of goodness in the world that would fix things like this.

I suppose the word I'm looking for is "unfair".

It's unfair that that guy had to die, and his death was utterly pointless. It did nothing, it solved no problems and it was just a pointless, empty sacrifice that brought nothing but sadness to the people around him.

Maybe I'm idealistic, but I want to believe that the world is a fairer place than this. My biggest gripe is that, reading the quotes from the cops when they got off, they don't even sound sorry. They believe what they did was right. That's what really pisses me off the most, I guess.

[Lox]

On top of that, this was all before the guy's wedding. I mean, it's ridiculous--if they're attacking in a car, shoot the fucking tires.

I love statements like this. Police officers are not trained to shoot tires. This isn't Arnold Schwarzenegger movie land where you can blow a car's tires out with a few shots and have it smash into a wall thereby only slightly injuring the people in the car. Police officers are trained to defend themselves when they think they are in danger in the most effective way possible. When I see statements like this I immediately think "put yourself in that situation and see how you'd react." I doubt shooting tires would be your first thought.

[Blotus]

Rent are you white?

[Tessian]

I suppose the word I'm looking for is "unfair".

It's unfair that that guy had to die, and his death was utterly pointless. It did nothing, it solved no problems and it was just a pointless, empty sacrifice that brought nothing but sadness to the people around him.

Maybe I'm idealistic, but I want to believe that the world is a fairer place than this. My biggest gripe is that, reading the quotes from the cops when they got off, they don't even sound sorry. They believe what they did was right. That's what really pisses me off the most, I guess.

Hot tip for you kid-- life isn't fair. There is no benevolent being looking over things or some cosmic equation. The sooner you wrap your head around that the sooner you'll grow some chest hair.

Oh and yeah-- just like Lox said you're an idiot if you're one of those people who think cops are like on TV/movies. Cops are trained to use their guns to KILL, not to shoot the person in the leg or shoot out their tires. Amazes me some people still think otherwise...

[EsquE]

Maybe I'm idealistic, but I want to believe that the world is a fairer place than this. My biggest gripe is that, reading the quotes from the cops when they got off, they don't even sound sorry. They believe what they did was right. That's what really pisses me off the most, I guess.

Sure, because even saying their sorry wouldn't lead to them getting sued and their lives being ruined in a civil lawsuit. They can't say they're sorry even if they want to, and no other cop will say it either. Blame our overly litigiouos society for that, where no one is responsible for their own actions and can sue anyone for their own stupidity.

And guess what, if I had painted black people with as broad and ignorant a brush as you just painted cops in your other post, you would all be calling me a racist. I know a lot of cops and most of them are good men who are putting their life on the line to protect you every day.

Yeah, you're idealistic...but are you idealistic enough to not call the cops when some piece of shit is threatening your family or breaking into your house, just in case those evil bad policemen might shoot him for no reason? No, you'd shoot him in the face yourself if you could...just like you'd empty your gun into him if you thought he was trying to run you or your friends down with his car.

And one last thing...I believe at least one of the cops had his badge out when they pulled their guns on this guy. Also, criminals don't pull their guns and shout for you to stop...they just shoot you. Cops tell you to stop...the guy was stupid to try and run. It was an accident, it was tragic, but it was not intentional or racist. None of those cops are marking a notch on their gun handle for another kill...they're probably pretty fucked up over it. Most cops end up in therapy for awhile after they shoot someone or get shot at.

[RentCavalier]

Maybe I'm idealistic, but I want to believe that the world is a fairer place than this. My biggest gripe is that, reading the quotes from the cops when they got off, they don't even sound sorry. They believe what they did was right. That's what really pisses me off the most, I guess.

Sure, because even saying their sorry wouldn't lead to them getting sued and their lives being ruined in a civil lawsuit. They can't say they're sorry even if they want to, and no other cop will say it either. Blame our overly litigiouos society for that, where no one is responsible for their own actions and can sue anyone for their own stupidity.

And guess what, if I had painted black people with as broad and ignorant a brush as you just painted cops in your other post, you would all be calling me a racist. I know a lot of cops and most of them are good men who are putting their life on the line to protect you every day.

Yeah, you're idealistic...but are you idealistic enough to not call the cops when some piece of shit is threatening your family or breaking into your house, just in case those evil bad policemen might shoot him for no reason? No, you'd shoot him in the face yourself if you could...just like you'd empty your gun into him if you thought he was trying to run you or your friends down with his car.

I believe in defending property, but I'm at the point where if somebody is threatening me or my own, then I'll be the one to take care of it, and I'll be the one to live with it.

All I'm saying is, the police should be--need to be--held at a higher standard. Yeah, I bet there are a lot of good cops, sure. But there are also a lot of good criminals. Not every person who steals is a bad person. There's a holistic problem behind it all, and many lawbreakers are only breaking those laws because they have no other choice.

So, it's not right to villify a cop killing somebody just because he's a cop? That's talk of complacency. We have grown complacent, eager and willing to let all of our problems be solved by other people. We're all too keen to call the cops and let them "save us", but why?

People need to start realizing that just because somebody has a gun and a metal badge doesn't mean they are your friend. The police are NOT your friend. They are servants of justice, but justice can be VERY narrow-sighted sometimes. What is the difference between them and I? The only difference I can see is that they are trained how to use a gun and kill, and I am not.

We need the police only because we do not know how to take care of ourselves. When the shit hits the fan, what can the police do? Somebody tries to kill me, threaten me, am I just expected to cower and wait for the great policeman to come and rescue me?

I say no.

I say that the police may be neccessary to a point, but that point ends when they start killing innocent people, when they start bending the law for their own good, for their own benefits. How many cops do you think get speeding tickets? How many cops do you think drink and drive, abuse drugs, steal? We absolve them from punishment, but why? Tell me why they are special and I am not?

You can't fight crime. It's a fight that nobody has ever won. Cops are cures for symptoms, and the justice system is a pharmacy to pump these cures out onto the streets. But the real problem, the biggest cause of crime, is US.

Apathy. Complacency.

The world isn't so simple that you can depend on others to protect you. That makes you a sheep. Cattle to be protected by the ranchers. But guess what--do you know what ranchers do to the cattle?

I won't pretend that I'm universally right. I was pissed off when I started this thread and I may have spoke hastily, but I stand by my message: what gives them the right?

Answer me that. There isn't a clause in the Constitution about an organized police force. The police force as we see it today was created back in the early 20th century to break up union strikes. The law serves the privelaged, and it punishes the unprivelaged. You speak of criminals as if they have choices, and maybe some of them do. I won't try to defend every criminal out there, because I know a lot of them are bad. A lot of them are dangerous.

But I also won't defend every cop out there.
Because I know a lot of them are bad.

And I know a lot of them are dangerous.

[EsquE]

Officer deaths in 2007:

Total Line of Duty Deaths: 179

9/11 related illness: 5
Accidental: 3
Aircraft accident: 3
Animal related: 1
Automobile accident: 47
Boating accident: 1
Bomb: 5
Drowned: 3
Exposure to toxins: 1
Fall: 2
Gunfire: 63
Gunfire (Accidental): 4
Heart attack: 7
Heat exhaustion: 1
Motorcycle accident: 5
Struck by vehicle: 9
Vehicle pursuit: 6
Vehicular assault: 11
Weather/Natural disaster: 2

Wow...cops get shot by accident too.

Don't have the 2007 stats for people killed by police officers, but it was slightly over 200 for 2006. And it has probably gone way down with taser use (and people like to bitch about that too).

Yeah...they're just indiscriminately killing people left and right.

Some people can't defend themselves...I guess they should be left to the wolves. Natural selection and all.

Have fun with your anarchy and vigilante justice.

[Chris]

Have fun with your anarchy and vigilante justice.

Batman would be so much better than cops.....we need an army of batmen

[Blotus]

Officer deaths in 2007:

Total Line of Duty Deaths: 179

Animal related: 1

I LOL'd.

[RentCavalier]

Officer deaths in 2007:

Total Line of Duty Deaths: 179

9/11 related illness: 5
Accidental: 3
Aircraft accident: 3
Animal related: 1
Automobile accident: 47
Boating accident: 1
Bomb: 5
Drowned: 3
Exposure to toxins: 1
Fall: 2
Gunfire: 63
Gunfire (Accidental): 4
Heart attack: 7
Heat exhaustion: 1
Motorcycle accident: 5
Struck by vehicle: 9
Vehicle pursuit: 6
Vehicular assault: 11
Weather/Natural disaster: 2

Wow...cops get shot by accident too.

Don't have the 2007 stats for people killed by police officers, but it was slightly over 200 for 2006. And it has probably gone way down with taser use (and people like to bitch about that too).

Yeah...they're just indiscriminately killing people left and right.

Some people can't defend themselves...I guess they should be left to the wolves. Natural selection and all.

Have fun with your anarchy and vigilante justice.

Wow, right, because nobody BUT cops get killed in accidents. Oh, wait, except for grooms on their wedding days where they're fucking EXECUTED by five cops.

The fuck is that list supposed to prove? Cops get shot by accident? Well, no fucking shit. Guns are dangerous regardless of who is using them. This doesn't answer my question: what the fuck makes them any more sympathetic than me? Why should they be exempt from the law they try to uphold?

Some people can't defend themselves, but if we were a self-reliant culture, we would be able to defend those we care about who cannot. Anarchy is a broad term to describe a lot of things, but the fact of the matter is that pretty soon, we're all going to be getting a real big reality check about the world. We can't rely on other people's mercies to survive. We have to be able to take care of ourselves.

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

Oh, wait, except for grooms on their wedding days where they're fucking EXECUTED by five cops.

You're an idiot.

Why should they be exempt from the law they try to uphold?

Who do you think judged them? A Subway sandwich artist? They were acquitted by a court of law.

Anarchy is a broad term to describe a lot of things, but the fact of the matter is that pretty soon, we're all going to be getting a real big reality check about the world. We can't rely on other people's mercies to survive. We have to be able to take care of ourselves.

What are you, running for office? Do you think you could make it through one post without hyperbole, trolling, or burying us under a mountain of cliches?

[RentCavalier]

Oh, wait, except for grooms on their wedding days where they're fucking EXECUTED by five cops.

You're an idiot.

Why should they be exempt from the law they try to uphold?

Who do you think judged them? A Subway sandwich artist? They were acquitted by a court of law.

Anarchy is a broad term to describe a lot of things, but the fact of the matter is that pretty soon, we're all going to be getting a real big reality check about the world. We can't rely on other people's mercies to survive. We have to be able to take care of ourselves.

What are you, running for office? Do you think you could make it through one post without hyperbole, trolling, or burying us under a mountain of cliches?

A court of law, of which they are servants. And they got off. Maybe it's just me, but when you hear about these cases of cops going to trial for killing somebody, isn't there a rather scary TREND of those same cops getting off scott-free?

And I don't bury you under a mountain of cliches. I smash you with a METEOR of cliches.

I won't even bother with the trolling comment, except to say one thing:

Halo 3 sucks, and your mom gives lousy head.

[Tessian]

A court of law, of which they are servants. And they got off. Maybe it's just me, but when you hear about these cases of cops going to trial for killing somebody, isn't there a rather scary TREND of those same cops getting off scott-free?

[CITATION NEEDED OR STFU]

You are just talking out of your ass and it's quite obvious. Back up your sweeping generalizations and retarded reasoning with some sources or just admit you're an idiot who knows nothing on the subject.

[Chris]

Oh, wait, except for grooms on their wedding days where they're fucking EXECUTED by five cops.

You're an idiot.

Why should they be exempt from the law they try to uphold?

Who do you think judged them? A Subway sandwich artist? They were acquitted by a court of law.

Anarchy is a broad term to describe a lot of things, but the fact of the matter is that pretty soon, we're all going to be getting a real big reality check about the world. We can't rely on other people's mercies to survive. We have to be able to take care of ourselves.

What are you, running for office? Do you think you could make it through one post without hyperbole, trolling, or burying us under a mountain of cliches?

A court of law, of which they are servants. And they got off. Maybe it's just me, but when you hear about these cases of cops going to trial for killing somebody, isn't there a rather scary TREND of those same cops getting off scott-free?

And I don't bury you under a mountain of cliches. I smash you with a METEOR of cliches.

I won't even bother with the trolling comment, except to say one thing:

Halo 3 sucks, and your mom gives lousy head.

[EsquE]

Really, I'm finding trouble locating this non-stop torrent of cops shooting innocent people on purpose...this epidemic that has you condemning all cops.

Otherwise, you sound like the idiots that want to ban all mature video games because a few people can't handle anything mature or want to force their morals on everyone else.

Gee, lets throw out the entire concept of a police force and our system of justice over a few isolated incidents when 99% of the time it works.

If these cops were stripped of their badges...I probably wouldn't mind. They don't deserve to go to jail though. Step back and put yourself in these cops shoes before you go off the deep end and condemn them as "bad cops" and "evil". Get some fucking perspective...

Like me...I've waited for at least 3 posts from you on this subject before concluding that you're a pair of clown shoes.

[SineSwiper]

Sure, because even saying their sorry wouldn't lead to them getting sued and their lives being ruined in a civil lawsuit. They can't say they're sorry even if they want to, and no other cop will say it either. Blame our overly litigiouos society for that, where no one is responsible for their own actions and can sue anyone for their own stupidity.

Sure. The first thing that they teach you in groceries and department stores is that if somebody slips and falls, you can help them out, but never say "I'm sorry", because that admits guilt.

And guess what, if I had painted black people with as broad and ignorant a brush as you just painted cops in your other post, you would all be calling me a racist. I know a lot of cops and most of them are good men who are putting their life on the line to protect you every day.

Apples and oranges. Black people are born black. They can no more change their skin color so much as I can change mine. They were stolen from their home lands, forced into slavery for a 100 years, oppressed for the next 100 years, and all for what amount to a bogus idea that skin color somehow relates to intelligence or ability.

Cops CHOSE to be cops. There's a certain kind of mentality to chose to be a cop. For one, you have to agree with the laws on the books, ALL OF THEM. You have to seriously believe that the laws your enforcing are correct and benefit society. This includes everything from those bullshit traffic laws to those bullshit War on (some) Drugs laws. Either that, or you don't give a shit, which is even worse.

Not saying that there aren't some good cops out there, but there's a lot of them out there that are either misguided or in it for the power of taking somebody down. And I agree that cops usually are pretty fucked up about shooting somebody.

[EsquE]

It's not apples and oranges because I'm not talking about WHO he's talking about, but the manner in which he's talking about them. Whether they choose to be that is irrlevant.

If you take the actions of a few and use that to pass judgement on everyone in that group, you are an idiot. Regardless of who or what you are talking about.

[SineSwiper]

Some statistics for the state of NY

The population of NYC is roughly 8 million. There are 37,000 officers in NYC. There were 14 shooting deaths (innocent or not) in 2003. If we were to multiply this by the rough estimate of 300 million (population of the US), this would point to roughly 525 deaths due to cop shootings (criminals and innocents both) in the US.

In 2005, there were 2,448,017 deaths total. Heart disease claimed 652,091 (27%) of these. Cancer killed 559,312 (23%) people. Stoke: 143,579 (6%) people.

Again, if we take the estimate of shooting deaths from 2003 and compare them with the stats I have for 2005 (since the figures don't really change that much), that would put the percentage at 0.021%.

[Ishamael]

The amount of shots is completely irrelevant and make no mistake, the cops fucked this one up. That said, I don't think it was murder. It was just a tragic mistake.

[Don]

If you compare anything to say, car accident or heart attacks you get the answer that nothing is relevent compared to say, fixing the freeway so people don't die as often in car accidents. More people probably die from not having a dedicated left turn signal (since that makes left turning more dangerous) than people who were wrongly shot by cops. I'm not sure if it's particularly relevent to cite such statistics.

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

There's a certain kind of mentality to chose to be a cop.

No, there's not.

For one, you have to agree with the laws on the books, ALL OF THEM.

No, you don't.

You have to seriously believe that the laws your enforcing are correct and benefit society.

No, you don't.

This includes everything from those bullshit traffic laws to those bullshit War on (some) Drugs laws.

No, it doesn't.

Either that, or you don't give a shit, which is even worse.

No.

You are making stupid, sweeping generalisations here, and Esque is exactly right in that if he or anyone else had painted a racial group with as broad a brush as you're painting cops, he'd be called a racist. You're right in that cops choose to be cops, but wrong on everything else. That single choice does not in any way reduce their humanity or the complexity of their motivations in the manner that you are suggesting it does.

[SineSwiper]

No, there's not.

Yes, there is.

No, you don't.

Yes, you do.

No, you don't.

Yes, you do.

No, it doesn't.

Yes, it does.

No.

Yes.

See, I can disagree with you and not give any basis for my argument, too. If you aren't going to intelligently argue with me, then don't bother to reply.

[kent]

There's a certain kind of mentality to chose to be a cop.

there is a large range of mentalities which lead to people choosing any kind of profession. there's no one specific mentality which all police officers have.

i know of someone who does it because it's a stable government job. i know of someone who really wants to do it because they feel like that's their best way of being able to help people.

For one, you have to agree with the laws on the books, ALL OF THEM.

you have to agree to enforce them when the need arises. but no police officer ever agrees to the principle of which every law is written. and frequently they do not enforce laws when they feel it's unnecessary.

You have to seriously believe that the laws your enforcing are correct and benefit society.

most people (police officers or not) do believe that most laws are correct and benefit society. what's the definition of seriously?

This includes everything from those bullshit traffic laws to those bullshit War on (some) Drugs laws.

if this was true you'd never see any one successfully talk their way out of a speeding/parking ticket (and people do all the time).

Either that, or you don't give a shit, which is even worse.

being able to make judgment calls is not the same as not giving a shit.

Not saying that there aren't some good cops out there, but there's a lot of them out there that are either misguided or in it for the power of taking somebody down.

you're misguided because most cops don't actually get to "take people down", if that's their primary reason for going to work, it's like ending up with blue balls everyday.

[Julius Seeker]

Please add the word "the" after the word "fuck" and remove the comma and the word "people" from the topic title.

[RentCavalier]

...fuck the people? That isn't a synonym of fuck white people at all.

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

See, I can disagree with you and not give any basis for my argument, too. If you aren't going to intelligently argue with me, then don't bother to reply.

We're spinning round in circles because you haven't provided any kind of evidence for the bullshit generalisations you've made, and the burden of proof for making them is on you.

Where are the psychological studies evidencing your claim that the kind of person that chooses to become a police officer agrees with every law ever passed, believes that enforcing such is correct, or that they even share some kind of common mentality? You didn't even bother to provide fucking anecdotal evidence, man. That's ridiculous even for you.

[Julius Seeker]

...fuck the people? That isn't a synonym of fuck white people at all.

Fuck the white man

[kent]

...fuck the people? That isn't a synonym of fuck white people at all.

Fuck the white man

a white man would not have messed up those simple instructions so badly.

[SineSwiper]

Where are the psychological studies evidencing your claim that the kind of person that chooses to become a police officer agrees with every law ever passed, believes that enforcing such is correct, or that they even share some kind of common mentality? You didn't even bother to provide fucking anecdotal evidence, man. That's ridiculous even for you.

We're having a qualitative argument, and you're asking for quantitative evidence. I guess this is going nowhere, because neither side has any sort of evidence to support either argument.