Hulk Hogan's Firing

[Replay]

I got some seriously mixed feelings about this.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/j ... ism-gawker

On the one hand, Hulk Hogan is clearly an asshole, and sometimes a racist. And yeah, he dropped a bunch of callous n-bombs about someone he wondered if his daughter was seeing. The notion that Hogan is not always a nice guy has been known for some time, apparently.

On the other hand, you have Dennis Rodman sticking up for him and saying he just made a bad decision during a wild night of partying a long time ago; apparently they've been friends for some time now, so Dennis is rather saying by implication that Hulk can't be THAT big a bigot as of 2015 or they wouldn't be friends.

On yet another hand, no doubt borrowed from Zaphod Beeblebrox - Gawker comes off like a bunch of douchebags too, somewhere between TMZ and the NSA - because they apparently had to dig pretty deep into Hogan's life to unearth this. It wouldn't be the first accusation that Nick Denton and Gawker Media in general are more akin to vicious paparazzi than real journalists, either.

On a fourth hand -possibly genetically engineered of some kind, I don't know - Vince McMahon comes off looking like even an bigger douchebag, to me, because not only does this entire "Hulk who?" thin he's both pulling in response smack of desperation and corporate Newspeak, but also McMahon has apparently "only" dropped the n-bomb in public himself "once". Reminiscent of NBC and Cosby - all of a sudden these celebrities don't exist in the public corporate record, we'd like you to forget we hired them, and so on, oh, and don't ask questions about the attitudes that have let this go on for as long as it had to in order to get filmed and leaked (but hey, we're keeping the $200-$300m they brought in for the network over however many years.)

Cosby was treated as a god at NBC for almost a decade; Hogan as the WWF/WWE's prize breadwinner for almost two. The idea that they've suddenly vanished from the record because oops, celebrity scandal, doesn't work when your performers have been nine-figure assets to your organization over a period of time long enough to raise a child.

And those who forget the sins of the past are doomed to forget them; if the objective is to teach the kids "Hey, don't be racist!" - this "Hulk who?" concept really isn't going to cut it.

....

So, anyway. Opinions solicited.

[Eric]

Cosby is a rapist and Hulk Hogan is a racist, nothing good came out of the 80s.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CK5UdBSUEAArout.jpg

[Replay]

Good to hear your opinion Eric, your words carry weight on this one.

[Replay]

The whole thing just makes me depressed. Hogan was a fixture of my childhood, though I'm not going to stand up to defend him now. Gawker comes off like TMZ on steroids and McMahon like a racist asshole too.

[kali o.]

Good to hear your opinion Eric, your words carry weight on this one.

Lol...that struck me as racist for some reason. And Eric is wrong...80's rocked.

That aside, Cosby is pretty fucked up. Like mentally ill and dangerous. That is the kind of behavior that should be vilified and close doors...and it should be dredged up for justice sake.

Hogan is just an asshole. I am not sure how I feel about people losing their livelihood from holding stupid/ignorant/incorrect opinions (or just say stupid things). Especially in private conversation. Something about it strikes me as...not right.

[Replay]

Good to hear your opinion Eric, your words carry weight on this one.

Lol...that struck me as racist for some reason. And Eric is wrong...80's rocked.

Clearly I am racist for wanting to hear a black perspective on this, we can run with that if you like. *eyeroll*

That aside, Cosby is pretty fucked up. Like mentally ill and dangerous. That is the kind of behavior that should be vilified and close doors...and it should be dredged up for justice sake.

All I keep thinking is, how the hell does the most popular TV star of his time NOT get laid whenever he wants without being a skeezy date rapist? It's like Jerry Seinfeld going to a 50-IQ frat party going "Hey guys, how do I roofie?"

Yes, I agree, when someone has likely committed 25 date rapes and counting - and particularly someone who could have had loads of legal fun play and sex whenever he wanted - this means there was something in him that had to have the ones he just couldn't get. I'm kinda shocked that criminal prosecution hasn't been brought yet.

Hogan is just an asshole. I am not sure how I feel about people losing their livelihood from holding stupid/ignorant/incorrect opinions (or just say stupid things). Especially in private conversation. Something about it strikes me as...not right.

Ironically, for once we agree.

I think Hogan acted like a world class shit...in a private bedroom, while stupidly making a private sex tape. But I'm not sure his firing and literal erasure from the WWE records - they kicked him out of the Hall of Fame, too - makes me feel any better about it. In fact it I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

Hulk obviously has had every chance to put money away over the years, so if he's hurting it will still be on him - but this entire notion of pretending he wasn't the most popular wrestler on TV for decades feels really Orwellian. And it's not like McMahon hasn't used the word himself.

What I hear in the wrestling blogs is that Hulk is basically getting old and slow, he's old and hurt but still wants younger wrestlers to be forced to kayfabe-fold to him if he ever steps in exhibitions, he's not rating well anymore and his asking price is really high, that this may just be WWE's chance for a clean break without paying Hogan a dime ever again.

Which is...skeezy, itself. If you want to fire him for financial reasons, say that. Don't use a private sex tape scandal to go "Whoops! Breach of contract, thanks for the $300 million or so you brought over the years and now you don't exist, you forgot to only use that word in private." If McMahon's on tape as saying it once, I doubt the number of times he's said it in private himself is zero.

[Eric]

I think wiping out everything he ever did from the WWE is stupid, if you had to wipe out a record or title for every racist American in the past 200 years I think you'd find we'd probably be lacking in records.

I think knowing he's a terrible person and shunning him going forward is perfectly fine.

If you're a celebrity or in a position where public opinion matters then losing your livelyhood for saying awful or being a awful person is entirely your fault.

He's a grown ass man, he's had years upon years to reflect on people and change his views on others before going on a tirade like that. Regardless of how it came out, if he didn't keep those awful views in the first place it wouldn't have happened.

When it comes to white people being outed for saying racist shit, it's typically ok for them to be as passively racist as possible in society until they're caught going too far, then they're shunned by everyone. Fuck em when they get caught is how I feel about it.

I keep thinking is, how the hell does the most popular TV star of his time NOT get laid whenever he wants without being a skeezy date rapist?

Because the act of rape is enjoying the power and control you hold over someone, not getting laid.

[Replay]

I think wiping out everything he ever did from the WWE is stupid, if you had to wipe out a record or title for every racist American in the past 200 years I think you'd find we'd probably be lacking in records.

I think knowing he's a terrible person and shunning him going forward is perfectly fine.

Co-signed, well said.

He's a grown ass man, he's had years upon years to reflect on people and change his views on others before going on a tirade like that. Regardless of how it came out, if he didn't keep those awful views in the first place it wouldn't have happened.

When it comes to white people being outed for saying racist shit, it's typically ok for them to be as passively racist as possible in society until they're caught going too far, then they're shunned by everyone. Fuck em when they get caught is how I feel about it.

Yup, this is true, and there's a corollary - if black people are caught on tape slurring whites they're generally fired and erased from the record, or even if someone just SAYS they did - distorting everything so that it was the opposite of what was meant. Anyone remember this stupid shit where Fox deliberately twisted Shirley Sherrod's words until it was the EXACT opposite of what she meant - and she got fired and basically erased anyway?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firing_of_Shirley_Sherrod

But Paula Deen still has defenders, and lots of them, so do the Duck Dynasty people - reminding us about this is kinda why I'm glad you're weighing in on it.

I keep thinking is, how the hell does the most popular TV star of his time NOT get laid whenever he wants without being a skeezy date rapist?

Because the act of rape is enjoying the power and control you hold over someone, not getting laid.

Yeah, I guess nobody can put it any better than this.

[Replay]

In Cosby's case I keep finding myself wondering if he just grew into that out of ego, or if something happened to him in terms of abuse himself.

Because in all honesty, that kind of date rape...I mean, for fuck's sake, Eric is right, this isn't about getting laid in any sense we'd understand it as. It strikes me that drugged date rape is not quite necrophilia, but you can see it from there. A lively romp in the hay it is not.

[Replay]

Food for thought - some more nice commentary here on the WWE's bizarre, utterly inconsistent history of dealing with bigotry - for instance, Hulk is scrubbed from the Hall of Fame for a racist rant on a private sex tape, Ultimate Warrior still in it despite actually recording and uploading an official video with a homophobic rant on how "queering doesn't make the world work."

http://whatculture.com/wwe/10-wwe-hall- ... legacy.php

I tentatively agree with the people saying Vince McMahon is possibly the problem and has to go, the guy is giving Roger Goodell a run for his money on running an athletic league as a sick house with a lot of problems.

[Julius Seeker]

He holds latent racist feelings. He may not be racist through and through, but there's that part of his psyche that is. Similar to Kramer. It comes out with anger.

[Replay]

Ya know, Michael Richards is worse to me.

Again - not defending Hogan - but on the real, Hogan just comes off to me as an old bigoted part-Italian dude, I swear the old Italian cook at one of my old jobs was the same way. Italian culture has a big problem with anti-African racism in general...and this guy's racist slurs and jokes used to drive me crazy, but despite his constant barrage of offensive jokes I wouldn't say I thought he was legitimately a heartless person. And it wasn't anger that provoked this one; more like arrogance/overconfidence on Hogan's part - "Hey, I'm fucking my best friend's wife in front of him and getting away with it...and laughing about it...maybe I can just say ANYTHING and get away with it too." The behavior is awful, but there's legit a difference between someone who's just an egomaniac, racist dickhead and someone who's legitimately sociopathic/psychopathic.

Richards by contrast let it rip in public after seriously losing his shit, against someone without a microphone, screaming slurs to and in his face from the stage. That's worse to me, seems like it could one day erupt into genuine physical danger for minorities in his path. (True story - Michael Richards is such an asshole in general that when the camera is off as well that my friends once wanted to take a picture with him in public after running into him at a Jamba Juice, his response was "If you take my picture, I'll take your camera.")

To paraphrase what Eric said...if we took everything away from everyone who had so much as once been inappropriate/racist behind closed doors, maybe 1% of this country would have anything at all if that. But a celebrity out in public is an ambassador for his or her work, his or her company, and indeed the country at large, in a lot of ways. There were homeless people in my old neighborhood that showed more self-control than Kramer did on stage that day.

[Julius Seeker]

RIP Roddy Piper.

[kali o.]

Kramer isnt racist...he just isnt a great comedian....

[Replay]

He stood up on stage screaming at an African-American heckler in the audience - "Fifty years ago we'd have you upside down with a f***ing fork up your ass...you can talk, you can talk, you're brave now motherf**ker. Throw his ass out. He's a n*****! He's a n*****! He's a n*****! A n*****, look, there's a n*****!"

...and he's not a racist?



The inside of your mind makes very little sense to me, Kal.

[Replay]

RIP Roddy Piper.

Rest in peace.

Wrestling is actually apparently the most dangerous sport in the world, even worse than boxing in that respect. Even boxers and football/rugby players can usually get old, though it's usually in injury and pain. Steroids, repeated injuries, drugs, and the psychosis of the stress of the lifestyle seem to take most wrestlers out twenty years earlier than other athletes.

http://whatculture.com/wwe/20-most-trag ... entury.php