The Other Worlds Shrine

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  • Thirsty for the next Martin book?  Its been forever, hopefully it will rock.  In the meantime he posted a sample chapter that is pretty good.

  • Somehow, we still tolerate each other. Eventually this will be the only forum left.
Somehow, we still tolerate each other. Eventually this will be the only forum left.
 #15579  by Flip
 Tue Apr 13, 2004 9:05 am
<div style='font: 12pt "Cooper Black"; text-align: left; '><b>Link:</b> <a href="http://www.georgerrmartin.com/chapter.h ... er.html</a>

Thirsty for the next Martin book? Its been forever, hopefully it will rock. In the meantime he posted a sample chapter that is pretty good.</div>

 #15580  by Ishamael
 Tue Apr 13, 2004 9:48 am
<div style='font: 14pt "Sans Serif"; text-align: justify; padding: 0% 15% 0% 15%; '>"Is Wayne Brady Gonna Have to Choke a Bitch?" I'm gonna wait until I get my full meal. These little snacks aren't enough to satisfy me...</div>
 #15582  by Julius Seeker
 Tue Apr 13, 2004 12:46 pm
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>They seemed to lack a lot of focus and the characters seemed to be very poorly developed. The main draw of the series now is just to see who gets killed next; adequate character development and an interesting plot just don't seem to be there.</div>
 #15584  by Flip
 Tue Apr 13, 2004 1:58 pm
<div style='font: 12pt "Cooper Black"; text-align: left; '>I love the characters and their development. Having chapters from their point of view is a great way to tell the story. Most writers write from one or two characters POV leaving much unexplained about interesting side characters. Martin makes sure you know what everyone is thinking, whether it be about their particular situation and/or the situation of the world as a whole.

As far as plot, what more can one want? The games played behind the battle for King is what is most interesting, and what most authors ignore. Martin focuses mainly on the backstabbing and treachery that ultimately win a person the crown. He does, however, take time to write about the big battles when they happen, as well, and does it quite well i think. Someone else in here complained Martin about him bringing the reader right up the climax of a given event and then ending the chapter. This style doesnt bother me, because the aftermath is always described, just usually from someone elses POV instead of the character involved. You still get the idea and usually a better idea using this style of writing.

Maybe you dont understand the plot? It can get confusing with all the factions and houses and people involved, but once you sort it out you find the story is masterfully done. I cant wait until Dany collects her army and dragons and is ready to cross the ocean! Talk about a blind side that noone sees coming! The way Martin is writing, switching from the 7 kingdoms story to Dany's story, makes the reader beg for them to eventually join, which they will and with a bang.

I dont think i would call it a lack of focus and instead would say he uses a fine focus, just on a lot of people. I feel as if i know everything anyone would need to know about each character he writes about: their mentalities, quirks, emotions, plans, etc. Each character is very different from one another and he shows that.

i cant wait!</div>
 #15589  by Julius Seeker
 Tue Apr 13, 2004 7:43 pm
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Jon will be King, and Dany (I forget her real name now it's been over a year since I read Storm of Swords) will be queen; whether it is of the same Kingdom or a divided Kingdom really has yet to be decided. Dany's story has become extremely repetetive, particularilly in Storm of Swords.

As for the poor character development, look at the character Jaime for example, Martin must have been drunk when he created this character. Many of the events that surround certain characters are just completely unbelievable, even for a fantasy world, such as Arya, Bran, and others. Many of the characters just seem to be pawns of the plot, and are killed off for shock value in the end (not shocking after over half of the main characters are dead).

As for the "Game of Thrones", that whole aspect is fairly apparent, and it ties into what I consider the main draw of the series now "who gets killed next". I just never really considered that sort of story to be overly interesting or at all necessary; I much prefer a plot which revolves around characters who are well developed (as opposed to characters of central focus, protagonists, who are dying by the dozen); and I believe that Martin could have maintained all of the intricacies of the plot with that style of writing and, in my opinion, would have come out with a much better and more interesting product in the end.</div>
 #15591  by Flip
 Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:30 pm
<div style='font: 12pt "Cooper Black"; text-align: left; '>The guessing is what keeps me reading, killing main characters has to be done with his style. I dont consider it a bad thing, many authors dont do it, maybe they should.

As for my guesses, i dont think Jon will be king, he is afterall a bastard and would disgrace himself even farther by leaving The Wall to claim the throne. The Wall is his fate. If he did, however, it is even less likely that he would fall in love with Danaerys (sp is close). I predict she will be defeated. Remember Gendry? The lost son of Cersei's husband (the name eludes me)? He will be found out to be Barantheon and the true heir to the thone, not any of Lannister kids, and he will be king all said and done.</div>

 #15594  by Ishamael
 Wed Apr 14, 2004 11:57 pm
<div style='font: 14pt "Sans Serif"; text-align: justify; padding: 0% 15% 0% 15%; '>LOL!</div>

 #15595  by Gentz
 Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:07 am
<div style='font: 11pt arial; text-align: left; '>Heh. Dude, don't put that quote in Daily Stuph too...I already prevented myself from being able to read M&M without laughing uncontrollably for minutes at a time by posting it there : )</div>

 #15596  by Ishamael
 Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:31 am
<div style='font: 14pt "Sans Serif"; text-align: justify; padding: 0% 15% 0% 15%; '>"Break yo-self fool! " "Aaaaaah, it's Wayne Brady!! Run!" *machine gun fire*</div>

 #15598  by the Gray
 Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:14 am
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>I've been reading 'The Hedge Knight' comic series to keep me satisfied. Now go read Stephen Eriksons books! Malazan books of the Fallen, go now!</div>

 #15602  by Gentz
 Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:48 am
<div style='font: 11pt arial; text-align: left; '>Hahahahahahaha</div>

 #15603  by SineSwiper
 Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:54 am
<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>White people like Wayne Brady because Wayne Brady makes Bryant Gumbel look like Malcom X.</div>
 #15605  by Julius Seeker
 Fri Apr 16, 2004 2:01 am
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Goodkind's books are not the same as Martin's, Martin's is one big large slur of a novel where 90% of the stuff in the end turns out to be dead end and laregly irrelivant. Each book in the sword of Truth series is a separate novel with a separate story, a separate situation. They are all linked together by common characters, and are generally links in a developing history.

>The guessing is what keeps me reading, killing main characters has to be done with his style. I dont consider it a bad thing, many authors dont do it, maybe they should.

The majority of authors in the Post-modern trash literature genre do kill off their main characters and write their work in fairly fragmented form, which is what Martin's work most closely resembles. The entire horror genre of film works on the "watch to find out what happens next" formula, as do soap opera's. As I said, the main draw to his book is to see who gets killed next, because that is the chief defining factor of who gains power. In comparisson, Goodkind's work focusses mainly on developments in the plot, sure death does happen, but he is not going to kill off his characters who are telling the stories, that would just be foolish and would lead to a dead end; stories are not told by those who die in them. Consequently, the characters of Goodkind's world are much more richly developed than any in Martin's world, it is much easier to feel for Goodkind's characters, and to understand their actions, whereas Martin's seem rather impersonal (except for Jon who I believe is by far his best developed character). If Goodkind wanted to, he could have used different characters for each book, because each book does have its separate story. He used the same characters for all of his books up to Pillars of Creation (which incidently is possibly the best story he has told so far, but it had new characters, the main one only described before, during Stone of Tears) and people complained because they lacked the characters that they had grown attatched to in his previous books.

Now I am not completely against main characters dying off, but Martin's don't die off for the necessity of the plot, but rather the convenience of it; which is just lazy writing and ultimately has caused a lot of dead ends in the plot with information highly irrelivant to the rest of his story. An example of a character death necessary to the plot (historical reasons aside) would be William Wallace in Braveheart, he died towards the end, but as it was written, he served as a martyr which made for the heavy emotional impact of the final chapter. An example of a character dying just out of convenience, or shock value, would be anyone ever killed in a Jason/Freddie movie. I'm not saying that all horror is bad, just the majority, some Stephen King stuff has been done incredibly well, "It" comes to mind. The plot of It is not to see who gets killed next, but the actual development of the characters, and uncovering the mysteries surrounding "It". The best film/book that I can think of which relies on the shock value/convenience of "who dies next" is Final Destination, because at least it is honest about the essential nature and value of the plot.


>As for my guesses, i dont think Jon will be king, he is afterall a bastard and would disgrace himself even farther by leaving The Wall to claim the throne. The Wall is his fate.

If you read carefully of how well he develops his characters and the detail of their parts of the story, you'll see that Jon's up to date has received the richest amount of development. "Rob" (was it, I forget his name now) and Catherine (the mother, I forget her name exactly too) received very poor development, and ended up dead. It is already easy to see who is going to die among the villains for sure, because Martin portrays all of the Lannisters, except the Dwarf, to be rather stupid characters (Jaime in particular). Many of the characters have repetetive stories involved with them (Daneries, Sansa the two most obvious characters). I think that Arya will be one to survive solely based on the fact that she somehow has the strength and stomach of a grown merciless man, she killed armed guards on several occaisions, but then again, she seems to have the mentality and intellect of a five year old which might point to her being stupid, and therefore a possible death victim, but I think the unnatural strength unballances that.

>If he did, however, it is even less likely that he would fall in love with Danaerys (sp is close).

As the story has proven though, love, age, anything has nothing to do with anything, no one in this world cares. In fact, Martin prefers pedofile relationships that seem to lack any form of love.

>I predict she will be defeated.

That is a possibility, I don't think that he has developed her character very well, which shows me that he does not incredibly care for her as he does characters like Jon (in particular), the Dwarf, Arya, and even Bran.

>Remember Gendry? The lost son of Cersei's husband (the name eludes me)? He will be found out to be Barantheon and the true heir to the thone, not any of Lannister kids, and he will be king all said and done.

I forget that (it's been a while for me, and I have read about 40 novels since I read Storm of Swords last summer), but Gendry is a baseborn child, and has less power than Jon, and no where near the intelligence. Gendry would have to have followers to take power (he has none), Jon's followers will grow over time as he is the only hope for all in the North. Also with Jon, it is all but a certainty that he will find the sollution to the threat in the North as well he will unify the Wildings and the people of the Seven Kingdoms; thus he will eliminate the need of the Watch on the wall. I believe that he will acquire the means to end the threat in the North through Deneries (though, as I said, it's been a while since I read). Now I may not be remembering correctly, but I do recall Jon as being the son of one of the true line of Kings; he is not the bastard son of Edgar (or whatever that guys name was) he was son of Edgar's sister and of a Prince of the Dragon Royal Family (I really forget all their names now), this has been very clearly forshaddowed to: Mainly because that part of the story about Edgar's sister and the Prince would have otherwise been completely irrelivant to everything, and so would keeping Jon's past such a misty secret. In otherwords, Jon is the true heir to the throne.

Had I been Martin though, there is a lot of the book I would have left out, I would have cut all of the uninteresting stuff that didn't really seem to fit with the plot, and put it into the Appendix under a sort of historical-document type format. Therefore all of the information of what is going on (who kills who, etc..) would be known, and there wouldn't be this game of "who gets killed next" fit into mediocre writing, by an author not very enthusiastic about the majority of the characters within the book. I feel that would have made (at least the last two books) the series a much more interesting read, and I might have enjoyed all of it and not just a small part of it.</div>