The Shrine

Trump's "Liberation Day" plans have finally been announced, and the essence of it is a universal 20% reciprocal tariff on any nation with a tariff against the United States.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 731267007/

Real talk, I thought Republicans hated taxes. But apparently they're okay on foreigners and Americans who work with foreigners?

As an investor I am heavily in cash right now. I think markets may get worse before they get better. This Administration is mean, it is out of touch and its economic policies are very bad.

It's all so incredibly stupid.

It really is.

Trump literally waited until markets closed to make the announcement. So futures tanked, markets will crater again tomorrow, and crypto tanked the second he revealed the tariffs.

I have never seen a President *cause a global recession* from an all-time-high stock market like this, ever.

Dow drops 1000+ points AT THE OPENING BELL.

Be careful with your investment and retirement accounts, everyone.

There's really no lower bound to how bad this policy set can be for the economy if they don't back down on it.

$6 trillion in value erased in two days.

/Looks at his pension

Need to stop doing that for a while....

Seen on social media:

"Anyone need a slightly used 401k? Gently depreciated, only driven to work on weekdays"

You often see experts say that stock market doesn't reflect the health of the economy when stock market is doing great but the economy is not. So I guess now we found out it doesn't work the other way around.

This asshole just keeps fucking people over so billionaires can get wealthier. And his mentally retarded cult is too stupid to see the problem. Throughout the fucking world, too.

Julius Seeker wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 09, 2025 4:19 pm

This asshole just keeps fucking people over so billionaires can get wealthier. And his mentally retarded cult is too stupid to see the problem. Throughout the fucking world, too.

The WH Press Secretary under any Administration is hired to look pretty as they lie on behalf of that Administration. Leavitt is not an exception to this rule.

As for "mentally retarded cult" - yeah, the average MAGA Republican is cruel and stupid, but I do have to say there's an aspect to the Dems that isn't really any different these days. I could not *believe* it when Biden pardoned one of the kids-for-cash judges who took bribes to send thousands of troubled kids to abusive halfway houses. There was at least one suicide related to that scandal - Edward Kenzakoski had his life ruined by Mark Ciavarella and killed himself.

Both parties are corrupt. And both parties are EXTREMELY resistant to looking at their own party's crimes and sins, and both parties do have them.

It could be that Canada and Commonwealth countries and the US have very different media, Because the picture we see of MAGA and the Democratic Party are very very different.

For one, Biden and the Democrats didn’t start any trade wars with the US’s allies. Didn’t threaten to annex my country, or our neighbours to the North. Didn’t betray Ukraine, didn’t mock their leader - who is greatest patriot in modern times. Didn’t foster a cult using demagoguery, nor stooped to weaponizing large groups of stupid people. And haven’t been seeking to undermine democracy and its institutions… meanwhile the Republicans seem to be doing it at every opportunity.

Ann Coulter and the lunatic fringe had threatened Canada in the past. Today we get this shit right from the mainstream Republican Party.

So, I don’t think the Democratic Party and Republicans are anything alike.

The Democrats simply need to get away from the identity politics and start focusing on what the majority give a shit about. They focus on too many niche/boutique/special interest issues and get steamrolled on the meat and potato issues.

The party needs to congeal behind one or a few solid platform positions. Stop acting like the sky is falling every time Trump does something 'outrageous' - everyone else is numb to it, save your energy and stop with the hyperbole on everything.

Start assuring people that you are the adults in the room, and not acting like whatever the fuck they were doing at the 'state of the union but not state of the Union'.

They will likely get help in the form of an even more turbulent economy come mid terms. But if they want any sniff of the oval office in 2028, they need get some power in 2026 and not completely squander it if it happens.

If the Democrats had a strong platform other than 'not Trump' last year, we likely wouldn't be in this mess

Feels like the party just rolled over and died.

Oracle wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 13, 2025 7:48 pm

The Democrats simply need to get away from the identity politics and start focusing on what the majority give a shit about. They focus on too many niche/boutique/special interest issues and get steamrolled on the meat and potato issues.

I actually disagree.

The Democrats need to stop trying to be Republicans. They need to stop sucking up to Republicans and kissing the asses of the last bunch of Nazi criminals pretending to be Republican "patriots". I refused to vote for Harris myself because of the refusal to hold peace talks in G*za and because I didn't want the Cheneys anywhere near the WH again. I know a lot of leftists who also refused to vote for Harris for the same reasons.

The Dems can beat Trump's coalition of white supremacist sh*t in a walk if they UNITE AROUND THEIR REAL PROGRESSIVES who pack arenas (Sanders and AOC, at present) and get their centrists who still have cred (Newsom mostly at this point) to actually endorse one and build a coalition.

They won't do that. They can't. Biden/Harris took over TEN MILLION DOLLARS from AlPAC. HiIIary spent years scuttling Bernie out of her races.

The Dems are being sabotaged by their own corruption, and as long as they do that they will continue to lose to Republicans - who are as a general rule these days vile, loathsome, racist, mammon-worshipping would-be war criminals and fascists - you should see some of the genocidal white supremacist sh*t I've seen on iFunny and Gab and even Twitter lately - but while Republican convictions are murderous, racist, and terrible, they at least have the courage of those terrible convictions.

The Dem centrists (other than Newsom and maybe Cory Booker) do not. And while they do not, they are going to continue to get ruined at the voting booth, which will continue to condemn my nation to a slow spiritual death from white supremacy and fascism.

By the way, while Joe Biden is by far not my favorite Dem politician and I believe he is far more corrupt than people know, I will give him credit - he may be a far better post-President and spoiler for Trump than he was a President.

As President he was overwhelmed by his age and the responsibilities of the job, not getting enough rest and sliding into dementia.

As an ex-President - well, this speech was on point.

I bet he's appalled that Trump just erased the last year or so of his stock market development, but he chose to remark on Social Security instead and that shows some real commitment to the FDR-style ideals he always said he stood for but so often fell so far from in reality.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/biden-m ... =120827366

It's interesting to see the internal US perspective of the two parties compared to us on the outside.

From the outside, to sum it up:

Democrats = Business as usual party, a big tent party - similar to Germany's CDU and various Liberal parties which allow for a wider variety of viewpoints to flourish. The Democratic Party holds such a wide variety of different philosophies within. This is what democratic parties should look like in a winner take all system - in a more proportional representation system, single issue parties have a bigger place at the table.
Republicans = An insane cult of personality party where everyone complies with the demagogue and repeats slogans and catchwords on from their dumb mouths every time they open their ruby lips. Like hollowed out automatons, no longer capable of self-reflection, self criticism, or independent thought.

Not sure if my fellow non-Americans agree on that, but that's how I see them in a nutshell.


Bernie Sanders, policy-wise, I like the guy a lot. And probably as a politician. What I didn't like about him in the past is the cult of personality forming around him. That sort of stuff is a toxin to democracy, regardless of whether they're correct on policy or not. I think that's why I always preferred politicians like Markey and Warren, because they didn't foster cults of personality - in fact, Markey avoided the spotlight and made AOC the face of his Green New Deal.

Too bad Markey is far too old to become President at this point, he's up there with McConnell and Sanders.

I agree and disagree with Oracle (mostly agree) on a few things. When I see "identity politics" I'm only ever seeing the Republican Party igniting that culture war. Where I agree is that culture wars shouldn't be a factor in electoral politics - they're human rights issues and it's up to the legal system to protect them from populist prejudices. The problem is the supreme court has been corrupted by the MAGA movement, and so the very people the courts should be defending human rights against are synonymous with the enemy.


And I agree with Replay/Mental (which do you prefer to go by these days?) that AOC is a solid leader for the new era. Not even for her policy positions, but because she's the most active of the party right now. She's putting in the work, and it genuinely seems like she's leading the fight - but there are a number of others who are definitely putting in the work, they just either don't put their faces out there (like Markey), or they're not as much in the media.

I think AOC and Kelly are the combo that I like best. Kelly, because Trump caught on with a catch phrase about making America great again... just he and the Republicans are too fucking stupid to figure out what that actually means - and interpret it WAY differently than history. What made America great was Keynesian economics, world trade, and keeping the West pacified while controlling a very strong stick on behalf of the West and the military technology we all use. Donald Trump stands for everything working against American greatness - trade taxation, attacking Western civilization, trying to save neoliberalism while further knocking down the Keynesian pillars, and actually doing the stupid thing (that will bite the world in the ass in about 20-40 years) of triggering European countries to declare military independence from the US - it will seem very good in the short term, about 5 to 10 years, and then we're going to see some frightening developments beginning.... Although, if the EU acts as a proper third world order to replace the American one (which was the second, that followed the British Empire) then perhaps things will be alright.

The Green New Deal is the future of the US, it's just a matter of when it happens, and how shitty things will have to get first. Is the Great Depression too far in the past? Do Americans have any cultural memory of that terrible period? Or the depression and recession waves of the Gilded age before that? The Gilded age and Great Depression brought some good things: the career structure and Keynesian economics - but better politics would have implemented those things before the disasters occurred.


My apologies if some of this stuff is contradictory, inflammatory, or messy, I'm a bit high... yeah, McCartney and Lennon songs are blasting in my mind right now

Julius Seeker wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 21, 2025 10:34 pm

The Green New Deal is the future of the US

I think you seriously overestimate this country.

The United States is in many ways a vast, impoverished trailer park that pretends it is a shining city on a hill.

We have dozens of millions of rednecks who have had 30 years of Faux News poured down their throats.

They hate environmentalism, hate the left, hate the Green New Deal and will not stop at anything, including violence, to oppose anyone who tries to change the cruelty and destruction of their oil-backed culture.

Don wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 06, 2025 11:43 pm

You often see experts say that stock market doesn't reflect the health of the economy when stock market is doing great but the economy is not. So I guess now we found out it doesn't work the other way around.

Word, Don. The whole "the stock market doesn't reflect the health of the economy thing" only gets trotted out by the wealthy when the working and middle classes are struggling but the wealthy and stock market are doing fine.

The truth is that the majority of Americans' pension and college and retirement savings are either in stocks, or other markets that are closely tied to the stock market. It always matters.

BUT there are a LOT of Americans who are too poor to have exposure to the stock market...and that is a double-edged sword. For therein lies both the lie you mentioned that the wealthy use to absolve themselves of responsibility, and the entire "art of the deal" nonsense that Trump's supporters trotted out to excuse this terrible policy set - I saw a lot of posts from young MAGA voters too poor to have investments, about how they were thrilled that "boomers were finally hurting too" or similar, which is another entire can of worms to unpack - somehow, Gen-X has gotten lumped in with boomerdom despite us being the first generation to be truly screwed by all this back in 2008.

Julius Seeker wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 21, 2025 10:34 pm

And I agree with Replay/Mental (which do you prefer to go by these days?)

I have been Replay in almost every venue I've been in for almost two decades now (which really shows how long I've been on the outs here!) It's my DJ handle.

Julius Seeker wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 12, 2025 9:05 pm

For one, Biden and the Democrats didn’t start any trade wars with the US’s allies.

Word, again. I'm an Angeleno, born and raised. And Canada and Mexico BOTH sent teams of firefighters to Los Angeles to help battle the worst disaster my hometown has ever seen.

And this is how Trump responded to them. Not a word of thanks for helping preserve a major American city...but Republicans HATE Los Angeles. Too many Latinos, too blue, and too unwilling to join the MAGA cult of personality you mentioned.

Replay wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 25, 2025 3:46 am

Don wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 06, 2025 11:43 pm

You often see experts say that stock market doesn't reflect the health of the economy when stock market is doing great but the economy is not. So I guess now we found out it doesn't work the other way around.

Word, Don. The whole "the stock market doesn't reflect the health of the economy thing" only gets trotted out by the wealthy when the working and middle classes are struggling but the wealthy and stock market are doing fine.

The truth is that the majority of Americans' pension and college and retirement savings are either in stocks, or other markets that are closely tied to the stock market. It always matters.

BUT there are a LOT of Americans who are too poor to have exposure to the stock market...and that is a double-edged sword. For therein lies both the lie you mentioned that the wealthy use to absolve themselves of responsibility, and the entire "art of the deal" nonsense that Trump's supporters trotted out to excuse this terrible policy set - I saw a lot of posts from young MAGA voters too poor to have investments, about how they were thrilled that "boomers were finally hurting too" or similar, which is another entire can of worms to unpack - somehow, Gen-X has gotten lumped in with boomerdom despite us being the first generation to be truly screwed by all this back in 2008.

Stock market is obviously a rigged game but I think ultimately it does have some semblance to economy. I mean just because it's rigged doesn't mean rich people didn't have a ton of value wiped out when the stock market tanked from the tariffs initially. It's just when it's especially weird you got all these guys talking about like "e=mc^2, therefore stock market must go up". When the real estate market crashed, some of the companies didn't have a model that was less than 5% growth on real estate each year. The stock market has apparently been divorced from reality for so long that I think some people really do think it can go up without any support whatsoever, and Trump proved that if you find ways to tank your economy turns out that actually does bring the stock market down too. I mean that shouldn't be an insightful lesson, but apparently it is now.

The other day I was talking to someone who was wondering why the stock market suddenly went up after a bad day and I joked 'what goes down must go up' and then I realized there must be a lot of people that actually believe that. I remember this quote from an author of a manga I read that goes: "I used to be a gambling addict, until I found out stock market is a thing.", and I think that's pretty descriptive of what's going on. And heck, that guy lives in China, where I think the P/E ratios are more grounded in reality compared to here.

It's become a casino.

Rational stock investing from half a century ago was based around figures like the P/E ratio - price/earnings, or in layman's terms, "if you bought the entire company at this price, how many years before its profits would equal your purchase price"?

But because the top end of the market is SO heavy with slush funds and corrupt wealth, it's now incredibly speculative. Companies that aren't profitable shoot to staggering valuations. Others that are - FB comes to mind - are only profitable because they quite literally are backed by government black funds and use the resulting monopoly power to stifle or eliminate competition.

Corruption is the problem. There's actually evidence to indicate that the world's preeminent cabal of billionaires is hiding trillions - maybe dozens of trillions, even hundreds of trillions - in black funds and shadow fortunes that no financial journalism from the mainstream media will ever reach, designed purely to manipulate markets to their benefit, and to control political systems. (Check out the top donors to ANY U.S. Congressperson for eye-opening surprises as a general rule.)

Don wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 25, 2025 7:41 pm

And heck, that guy lives in China, where I think the P/E ratios are more grounded in reality compared to here.

If only. China's bigwigs have adopted a LOT more of Western casino capitalism than they dare let on, and in that direction lie scandals like their current real estate sector problems led by the collapse of Evergrande.