No 9/11 Pilots Used Hijack Code

[Replay]

I was just like you on 9/11 once, by the way.

Until 2009 I thought "truthers" were insane and seeking attention.

Like you, I spent about thirty seconds Googling any given piece of information on the issue before saying I "didn't think Bush would have done that", or some other similar dismissal designed to let me stop thinking about the issue, and get back to my self-interested pursuits.

When I decided to stop the "stop thinking about it" line of thinking, it became very clear in short order that there was a massive coverup.

I just doubt you will ever get there. You are, and always have been, rather disinterested in things that don't concern you personally; as I recall, our earliest fights here back in 2001-2002 were over issues you thought I cared too much about - Bush's Kyoto conference disaster being one of them. Your "terrorist envy" comment a few months ago indicates to me that you still somehow fail to take the entire notion of terrorism, or the pain and suffering of any given victims, seriously in the least; and your continued use of ad hominem attacks indicates to me that you will fail to take any information presented seriously simply because I am the one trying to tell it to you.

Karma for me being as angry as I have been about you, I suppose - no matter how often you have lied about me, I should have kept my temper.

[kali o.]

Oh well, I tried..again.

By the way, an article was on the NYT that 100% debunked the false misrepresentation of that Bush quote. It also included undisputable proof that all of the truther theories are invalid. Unfortunately it was redacted by agents of Mossad. That's all I need right? You lose.

[Replay]

By the way, an article was on the NYT that 100% debunked the false misrepresentation of that Bush quote. It also included undisputable proof that all of the truther theories are invalid. Unfortunately it was redacted by agents of Mossad. That's all I need right?

If you can find me some proof it existed, I'm happy to listen. YOU found proof that Bush's quote is authentic, after all.

Oh, and don't bother with the "over my head" comments again - I know full well you're just mocking me at this point - knew it before I made any edits. No, I don't have "proof" that the PARTICULAR article REFERRED to by another Ha'aretz article existed - just PROOF that Ha'aretz printed that quote, which it did, in that article now redacted. I visited it dozens of times over the years. You, yourself, found proof that the OTHER article covering it exists - for which I thank you. Do you think Ha'aretz never ran the article I mentioned or is this just "war of words" stuff again?

What do you think Bush meant by that quote? Why do you seek to find technicalities not to discuss it?

Sad that you can't take any of it seriously.

Really, Kali - of the two of us, only you are selfish enough to think of this in terms of winning and losing.

In reality, we all lose.

$12 trillion spent since the wars started - three times as much as all Federal spending in America's history before.

A worldwide surveillance state and the effective abrogation of the Fourth Amendment, and much of the rest of the Bill of Rights, in the name of this "War on Terror".

This is a game to you - your war of words - it isn't to me.

I feel the same way; I tried.

[Replay]

But since we're bringing up everything except the kitchen sink - I'm still wondering why you didn't jump into the discussion you brought up - the one in which you gained your moderatorship, that I rarely bring up, but am happy to discuss - and accuse me of "fag-bashing" until LONG after Flip had said "Tony Homo" so many times I wanted to scream.

Rather than support my call to end the use of the word "homo", you waited until I HAD lost it - then accused me of "fag-bashing".

That struck me then, and still strikes me now, as rather convenient for you. Easy win for you in the "war of words"?

[Replay]

That irked me then, and it irks me now; I was attempting to take a stand against homophobia - and from where I was sitting, you bided your time, waited until others' refusal to stop using the word had already angered me - twisted everything around, waited until you saw an opportunity - and took it.

I can't help but feel it's related to the reason you accuse me of "hating Jews" time and time again when I have told you very clearly that my condemnation is reserved for Israel and its war policies alone.

I can't tell whether or not you actually believe that, or whether or not "war of words" is so important to you that you will do anything to win it - the same way you did in the discussion we're mentioning - and I do wonder why.

[Replay]

In closing, I really just want to note one other thing:

I've found a person's ability to discuss 9/11-related issues is...inversely proportional to their need to bully and manipulate.

And this time I did what you asked, and tried to have the discussion in as much respect as possible; you were not capable of it then, you aren't now.

I have long since accepted that you won't ever admit that there was anything wrong about Ellner and his friends.

But for someone who thinks this is all "nonsense", you seem to post dozens of replies every time I bring it up.

I do wonder if there's some part of you, deep down, that knows you don't actually have a clue what went on, and that a lot of the events around that day DO seem strange - just not quite enough for you to notice it consciously - and that's why you stay on these threads time and again

[Replay]

Really, though - is there some reason you can't discuss this with an ounce of respect?

Are you Jewish yourself? Do you have any Jewish ancestry at all?

[kali o.]

You know, I think the fact that you always have 4-5 replies to every persons single post is also indicative of the information processing difficulties you have. You are all over the place, you can't focus.

As it is, I believe I was fairly respectful. My last reply was joking and simply a reflection of the scenario that not only that you accept, but expect me to accept (no proof for claim). I do believe conspiracy's appeal to people who are mentally ill - I think there is significant scientific support on that front. I do believe the fact that you don't understand my points on the Bush-ism and Tzipora meme to be evidence you are very broken when consuming and interpreting information. None of these are insults...they are my opinions.

I am not attacking you, you simply interpret it that way. I believe, based on history and actions, that you have trouble correctly identifying the emotional state and intent of other people. Like the Bush-ism and meme, I am pretty sure no amount of explaining will get you to properly understand my state of mind or intent.

/shrug

I genuinely recommend you don't start threads on this kind of topic here. Save it for other places. Not because the topic is taboo, but because I don't believe you are in a state to have a civil discussion about these things or fairly consider the comments of others.c

[Replay]

You know, I think the fact that you always have 4-5 replies to every persons single post is also indicative of the information processing difficulties you have. You are all over the place, you can't focus.

Not at all. I just get pissed off that you're such a disrespectful liar.

As it is, I believe I was fairly respectful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

I'm sure Tom Cotton thinks the same thing about his Iran letter.

I do believe conspiracy's appeal to people who are mentally ill - I think there is significant scientific support on that front.

Is Senator Bob Graham also "mentally ill?" for asking for a new investigation? What about the victims' families' asking for a new investigation? Was Eckert "mentally ill"? for asking for one?

There was once "significant scientific support" that the earth was flat; that you could tell a criminal by the shape of their head; that black people were "inferior" to other races. You can find "scientists" to this day to justify to you the idea that the sun revolves around the Earth if you want it.

I am not attacking you, you simply interpret it that way.

I genuinely recommend you don't start threads on this kind of topic here. Save it for other places. Not because the topic is taboo, but because I don't believe you are in a state to have a civil discussion about these things or fairly consider the comments of others.

Oh, I see! No condescension like a self-righteous condescension, after all. You aren't even honest enough to admit what you're doing.

Lay it out so that we can pick it apart as the nonsense it is.

Your *facts* are not even based in reality. Why do you pretend to have researched this stuff?

It's pathetic. No joke. Stop before you embarrass yourself further.

You sure do get crazy when asked to back up claims. Maybe you should make an effort not to discuss these things here, since you are incapable of self control...?

You really need to quit while you are behind...

As to your questions: - dunno. -dunno.

Goodnight...mental.

To you the abuse is so normal - the notion that truthers deserve no respect or human kindness at all so ingrained - that you actually think this is "respect".

You have been attacking me since the beginning of the thread; but because you are so dishonest with yourself, you pretend you're not doing it.

That's pretty standard for "debunkers" - along with your "thirty seconds of research".

But honestly, Kali - I'm done. I'm done losing sleep over your shit. YOU aren't capable of having a civil discussion; you haven't been capable of having one since the beginning of the thread.

[kali o.]

Hmm...I am too lazy to quote jackass, asshole, liar, fucking bigot, evil or any of the other adjectives you used. Not like I care, but it seems you can't differentiate between an attack on a person and an attack on their positions. It also seems you have no self awareness if you are leveling those criticisms at me...

I tried to reduce the scope of the discussion to the simplest elements (Bush-ism and meme) that rely only on reason and logic. If I can't make you see where you are obviously faulty at that level, a more complex discussion is not possible...no matter how many links you add in.

You don't get it. I get that.

As for you losing sleep -- yet another reason not start these topics here. You are not in the appropriate state to have these discussions.

[Replay]

Quote me. I'm not ashamed of anything I said. You earned it all.

You compared me to Nazis and to white supremacists - an unbelievably offensive thing to say to someone who does have Jewish ancestry.

YOU don't get it either. I get that.

You don't understand that the Bush Administration is very, very capable of attacking its own nation at any given time; indeed that such attacks have been planned since the 1960's - or acknowledge that Prescott Bush was an ACTUAL Nazi collaborator, who had his assets seized in 1942-1943 under the Trading With The Enemy Act. Under the Bushes, the United States broke the Geneva Convention, reinstituted torture, killed its aides, and ran up eight trillion dollars in debt - twice as much as all previous Administrations combined - I'd ask you to look up John Wheeler, but I know you won't - do you really think they are incapable of committing mass murder for financial gain?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

As for "how many links I add in" - well, shame on me, since once again, you haven't sourced one thing. Clearly "proof" here relies on "what you believe" instead of the usual requirement to cite anything.

And so I agree - a complex discussion isn't possible.

You don't believe truthers are worthy of basic human dignity. You don't believe you have to source your material. You also don't have to suffer the consequences of what happens to the United States if Jeb gets elected next year, either.

So I will start whatever topics I want to. And in return you can ban whatever you like - reassign my topics, change the topic name to something demeaning, you're quite good at that.

The community has voted you that power; but I certainly wouldn't take mental health advice from this place on a bet. I don't see evidence that this community has historically tolerated those who are different or who think differently; nor that it respects basic human rights - like the right of content creators not to have their work stolen.

And without that kind of basic respect for other people, anything you say to me, Kali, contains no weight whatsoever.

[kali o.]

I don't really care if you bring up random things about me, that have no basis in this thread, to rage about...but why are you attacking the community again?

If you really don't like people here, why not go away?

You are an odd little fellow.

[Joe]

He's entertaining. I like poking the little monster every now and then when I get bored. The result is always predictable.

[kali o.]

He's entertaining. I like poking the little monster every now and then when I get bored. The result is always predictable.

Ya..I totally get that. But I wish I could fix him enough so he could have rational conversations here, and just go postal every once and awhile; instead of 24/7. I know I am not being completely articulate in my arguments...but even if my points were perfectly framed, I am pretty sure he wouldnt get it

[kali o.]

Actually, you know what...I'll try one more time. He has to be able to understand where he is failing in basic reasoning, logic and information gathering. I will make it as clear and simplistic as I can.

Subject: Bush-ism / quote
"I'll be long gone before some smart person ever figures out what happened inside this Oval Office."

Contention by Mental/Replay:
That quote by Bush is intended to hint that nefarious things occurred within his administration and he will be long gone before he is found out. The information is given freely, not leaked or obtained under duress. The context of this quote has been *redacted* from the internet, after assumed pressure or direction from undisclosed parties, directed at Haaretz.

Evidence by Mental/Replay:
Provides the following link as the original home of the article:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/decade-in-r ... ush-1.1220

Sequence of Criticism by Kali

1) There is no established motivation for Bush to hint toward criminal activity and incriminate himself. (reason & logic)
Mental's/Replay's contention does not make sense upon initial observation.

2) Bush has a documented history of saying funny & stupid things. (observation)
Countless articles, best of's and video compilations.

3) Things from the internet almost never disappear entirely. (observation)
God bless the internet.

4) News outlets strongly resist censorship and the likelihood of redaction is remote. (observation)

Conclusion: Mental's/Replay's interpretation and claims seem unreasoned and questionable.

Investigation by Kali:

The link provided by Mental/Replay is simply a "best of" compilation of Bush-isms, published on Haaretz. It in no way suggests what he suggest it does (a source article was once on Haaretz). Like other articles/videos on Bush-isms, it is simply a collection from other sources.
Evidence: Kali provides the ACTUAL article the quote is from, which provides proper context.
http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Bush-Abbas- ... ce-partner

Conclusion: Mental/Replay does not understand his own link. It does not suggest what he thinks it does. Haaretz having an article that includes a quote does not indicate there was a now redacted article. The original article was provided, showing the source of the quote and the context.

We can see that the quote originated during a conversation, attended by David Horovitz (journalist), in 2008. Even if we take the quote back out of context, simply applying reason & logic, we can conclude Bush would have no reason to incriminate himself or others by willfully providing clues to wrongdoing during unprotected, recorded conversation.

Evaluating the phenomenon of "Bush-isms" will provide anyone with hours of entertainment. Bush Jr. provides countless quotes, misspoken words/phrases and general stupidity - many of them have the unfortunate side effect of sounding nefarious outside of context (and that makes it more funny). Most people understand the humour. For some reason, Mental/Replay does not recognize these quotes are the result of an inarticulate, perhaps even stupid, speaker.

Final statement: Mental's/Replay's claims in relation to this quote are false. He does not have any evidence. He applies no reasoning or logic. I have placed the quote in context, I have provided evidence and I have offered reasoning & logic. I have not had to use wild theories, unsupported speculation or emotional appeals.

Mental/Replay....please see where you are making errors.

[Don]

The Internet tends to magnify any wild ideas. I mean if I am a reputed astrophysicist I could make a statement like "Hyper drive doesn't seem outside the realm of what is physically possible" and after a few iterations it'd probably become: "Renown astrophysicist claim hyper drive prototype can be available in 3 years." Since a lot of these stuff deals with things most people can't possibly be a subject expert and might not even have any possible way to verify any of the sources it just gets really crazy. One of topic I like to discuss is space exploration and for example you'd talk to people who thinks the materials you need to build a space elevator is just something you can buy from a grocery store, even though the construction of a space elevator requires materials that currently do not exist. Or maybe they heard graphene is awesome and it is but even that might not be strong enough not to mention the entire world's production of graphene isn't going to be anywhere enough to build a space elevator. And it's not unusual for someone to have no idea what kind of material breakthrough you'd need and therefore all the argument becomes totally pointless.

[Replay]

Mental/Replay....please see where you are making errors.

Yeah, right, Mr. "Terrorist Envy".

Errors like when you told me this thread didn't exist?

Errors like when you said my grandfather was a "nobody"?

I love how you've plastered your handle over all of it, as if this is really about you. "Kali does this". "Kali does that".

And yet again, you have provided no sources at all - except the one interview link you claim "provides context".

Why don't YOU stop thinking of this entire discussion as a way to self-aggrandize and actually analyze the interview in question? It'll be very hard for you to answer, since you didn't actually read the interview, and I did. Once again I'm going to ask you, Kali - WHAT IS THE CONTEXT of that statement? In fact you are wrong again, because that article doesn't even quote a fraction of the original interview - which I read in my entirety, and you never read at all.

But here's the supposed "context":

"I hope that history will say that this is a guy who clearly saw the world the way it is. I can assure you that al-Qaida, Hamas and Hizbullah don't think about the comforts of life. They are driven. And the fundamental challenge facing this world is, well, countries like the United States, be prepared to continue to stay in the lead...I'll be long gone before some smart person ever figures out what happened inside this Oval Office. But one of [those legacies] has got to be, he clearly saw the threat and he did something about it."

Why does Bush suddenly say "I'll be long gone before some smart person ever figures out what happened inside this Oval Office" in an otherwise rational-seeming interview? Is that or isn't it a non-sequitur? What did he do in the Oval Office that needs to be concealed from the public?

Try.

Stop stealing American television for awhile - quit coasting through your life and career and discussions here and thinking the world owes you a pile of everything for nothing, Kal, it might be against your nature - but try.

Thousands of lives DID and DO depend on everyone in America becoming willing to put down the apathy for awhile and look at the truth.

[Replay]

The Internet tends to magnify any wild ideas. I mean if I am a reputed astrophysicist...

You aren't a reputed astrophysicist.

Stop presuming the news is honest with you and look at the evidence.

[Replay]

The real irony is, once again - that the person who is pointing out that the Bush family has been involved in vicious genocide, banking theft, and human misery for a hundred years is the one being called a "Nazi" - but my family fought the Nazis; my grandfather never worked with Nazi financier Fritz Thyssen; only Prescott Bush did that.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/s ... ndworldwar

The Bushes have remained criminals ever since. H.W. concealed evidence of Neil Bush's theft of millions at Silverado Savings and Loan while he was President; taxpayers paid over $1b to settle the bank's bad debts. Neil Bush paid a slap-on-the-wrist $50,000 fine for costing taxpayers a billion dollars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savings_an ... s_and_Loan

And George, of course, is the man who gave us the repudiation of the Geneva Convention, legalized torture, near-unlimited police power to violate the Fourth Amendment under the "PATRIOT" Act, and more; I would go get the links - but you won't read them anyway, even if I do.

Indeed the Bushes learned the Big Lie technique they used on this country FROM Nazi Germany - and the essence of it has always been that one can conceal great evils simply by making those evils so foul, so depredacious, and so morally rotten that the average citizen CANNOT BELIEVE that such evils exist.

All this was inspired by the principle—which is quite true within itself—that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.
—Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, vol. I, ch. X

It has worked on this community like a charm; though I have no idea why.

You are not stupid people here, as a general rule, as these things are measured; but it requires emotional intelligence, courage, and bravery to see through the Grobe Luge too...

[kali o.]

God Replay, you are ridiculous. Good job on ignoring everything I wrote for your little ad hominem's and tangents. The closest you came to being on topic was simply asking me "well what do you believe the context is?!"...IT IS RIGHT THERE IN THE ARTICLE. I don't intend to break it down like I would for a toddler - simply read it without your delusions spewing bias all over it.

Anyway, I did not expect you to get it and that was as clear as I could possibly be on the simplest of arguments. You are simply too ill and too broken for me to fix (and yes, that is an attack on you, that you more than earned).

You are always angry, confused and paranoid. It can't be pleasant to be that way all day. Get professional help, you only live once.

[Replay]

Go fuck yourself, Kali.

You do help me in one way, I will say that: I often wondered why terrorists, the CIA, and all other kinds of violent extremists do what they do - constantly seize power and lie to the public, and perform violence, and try to destabilize the country and world.

Well, you are exactly the reason they do this shit to you:

You're a pathetic, sorry, apathetic mediocrity with "terrorist envy" and not an honest bone in your body. You slurp up every ounce of shit that your television grunts down your throat - you demean anyone who doesn't think like you do - you are, in short, one of the worst human beings I have ever seen.

What would I do with "professional help"? Pay three hundred dollars an hour to ask why you're a lying, dirty, greedy piece of shit? Sounds expensive and unproductive to me.

I'd much rather go back and work for that hedge fund, at this point, that you also claimed didn't exist - where I worked on complex securities analysis using Chebyshev's nodes, got paid more at least than most others over the years - and you lied about me there too, claiming it was "all just teenagers fucking with me". How many teenagers even know what Chebyshev's nodes are or can pay someone for hedge fund work and securities analysis?

But you called me a "liar" there, just as you implied I was lying about the thread where Flip and others here put me down a few years ago - you know why?

Because you have crab-bucket syndrome. You are in a whole host of ways a lazy mediocrity, and you know that deep down inside. You knew it when you flipped the script to falsely accuse me of "fag-bashing" a few years ago, and you know it now - and that's why, deep down, you DO have "terrorist envy" - and hope to see others put down. You don't like to see anyone who thinks differently from you succeed.

Do ME a favor and read up on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality

I have matured far beyond getting as angry as I have been at you before, over your dishonesty, sadism, and apathy - but you may not be as lucky as you have been here, all your life. You had better start learning to tolerate difference, debate, honesty - all the things that drive you up a wall, in short - or it will be you, not me, who adopts the same ideology the Nazis once used in full. You already showed signs of it when you started advocating that this community stop listening to me and instead go look for "message board conversations" wherein others would accuse me of what you wanted confirmation on, yourself - but you don't realize it.

Fascists never do.

So I advise getting professional help for your many serious emotional problems.

Whatever abuse you went through as a child, it has turned you into a bitter, sorry loser as an adult, and I do get tired of it. I didn't found this site so rural Southerners and Canadian realtors would have a place to talk shit about gay people, drink beer and watch football, and act like a bunch of jerks to anyone they don't agree with; but that is what it has turned into under your and Brendan's "capable" guidance.