Ottawa Terrist Attack or whatever

[bovine]

Hey shrine!

There was a shooting here in Ottawa last week and I was wondering how it was reported/what everyone thinks about it? I live in a neighbourhood relatively close to where it occurred (Hintonburg), and it seemed pretty "business as usual" over here. I follow the Ottawa citizen (local paper) on twitter and they were reporting the areas that were locked down, and as such my shopping plans for purchasing a birthday gift for my sister were cancelled for the day since the item was in an inaccessible area. Other than that, it seemed pretty clear that it was just one dude on the loose with a gun.

Has this been reported as a big terrorist thing in other parts of the country or world? I wonder what this will do for the upcoming federal election. So, what's up?


Also, I made some waffles and they're pretty good. What's the difference between regular waffles and eggo waffles? If my toaster is large enough to fit these waffles, can I just freeze them and then throw them in my toaster for a quick and tasty treat? Or will they come out weird? Has anyone tried this before?

[kali o.]

I won't lie -- I felt terrorist envy. We have one confused dude rush unobstructed into our government building, armed (that he could is embarrassing). One person dead. I feel bad for the loss of life and all, but it's no 9/11...or hell, any Wednesday in the Middle East.

So..I dunno. I am ashamed such a "minor" incident is a national tragedy...but proud too...that things are so mellow in comparison to the rest of the world.

As for waffles...well, I won't get into that. I have some pretty strong opinions there and don't want to end up saying things I regret and hurting feelings.

[Shrinweck]

If you want to know what a reaction was from an idiot here in the south it was something along these lines: "I hope our guards at the Unknown Soldier monument have bullets for their guns."

[Replay]

I won't lie -- I felt terrorist envy. We have one confused dude rush unobstructed into our government building, armed (that he could is embarrassing). One person dead. I feel bad for the loss of life and all, but it's no 9/11...or hell, any Wednesday in the Middle East.

So..I dunno. I am ashamed such a "minor" incident is a national tragedy...but proud too...that things are so mellow in comparison to the rest of the world.

So you don't give a fuck that the guy got shot to death, but I'm the "potential terrorist" for telling you the truth about the Israeli military.

Wow, kali! Seriously? Your alexithymia and disaffect seem to be getting worse, not better.

As for waffles...well, I won't get into that. I have some pretty strong opinions there and don't want to end up saying things I regret and hurting feelings.

*snort*

[Julius Seeker]

Feel really bad for the victim. There have been a few montages.

I don't really know much about the shooter except that he was a PCP user pretending to be a Jihadist militant. Other than that, one of the staff on my team's girlfriend was working in the building at the time, and was on the phone with him while the gunshots were going off.

I shaved my head for a Halloween costume (Rude, FF7 - or men in black gangster as most people thought), and I managed to get a really bigoted cab driver who, I can only assume thought I was down with racism, felt the need to go off on how Islam should be banned, and all the Arabs should be deported from Canada. It is kind of unsettling hearing that sort of talk considering some of my co-workers are Islamic, and use their cab service.

But to echo somewhat what Kali is saying, many are treating it as some sort of freak story, usually following or preceding the story of the 7 dead babies found in a Uhaul storage locker.

[kali o.]

So you don't give a fuck that the guy got shot to death, but I'm the "potential terrorist" for telling you the truth about the Israeli military.

Wow, kali! Seriously? Your alexithymia and disaffect seem to be getting worse, not better.

*snort*

Still getting *mixed* messages here, my little McVeigh. You don't want to engage me, but still lurking around.

You apparently read as well as you reason - go back and give it another shot. Ask a friend or care giver to help. At no point did I say "I didn't give a fuck".

[Replay]

I'm not "your" anything, kal. Much as you undoubtedly wish you had some kind of Iago-like control over me - you don't. Sorry if that bothers you.

I'm just pointing out that human life has routinely been VERY cheap to you since the moment you set foot on this board. I don't think I've seen you express genuine compassion for anyone or anything but yourself at any time here.

But if you can think of any incidents; do let me know.

Let me quote you on this one, in fact:

I feel bad for the loss of life and all, but it's no 9/11...or hell, any Wednesday in the Middle East.

Reminds me of Netanyahu saying, of 9/11 - "It's very good. Well, not good, but it will generate immediate sympathy for Israel." (That was, in fact, the first thing he said on the issue, right after it happened.)

How bad do you feel about the loss of life? Tell us all about it. That "but" spoke volumes.

Yet somehow I'm the "McVeigh" - because now you'll claim it's all a joke, right? We shouldn't take you seriously about that?

Your stupid and cruel "joke" doesn't actually bother me at this point. I've long since accepted the notion that there are some deeply abused people with serious disaffect issues in the world, who will always season their surface condolences over tragedy with some other terrible thing they want to say - in your case, your apparent - if "joking" - desire to see a major terrorist attack in Canada killing thousands, just so you can see Canada get some kind of national attention for it.

It does however bother me that such cold and callous lack of human feeling plays so well to the rest of the board.

It has bothered me since you showed up here that such cold and callous lack of human feeling plays so well to the rest of the board.

Would you say the same thing to the family of the victim?

Sorry! I'm well aware that my "founder" status here is long since gone - but watching such callousness spread among a community I had a hand in creating, once upon a time, continues to play the role of the grain of salt that found its way into the oyster.

[Shrinweck]

[Eric]

[kali o.]

Don't get your hopes up. I won't be tearing apart this little anti-semetic nutjob and his wacky statements until he offers the apology the rest of you are owed (because I am just the kind of person that cares and puts you all first!).

[Replay]

Oh, there are people here I might apologize to, kali.

But never you.

Particularly not when you keep lying about me, calling me "anti-Semitic" when you know I am Jewish - and calling me "fag-bashing" when you know perfectly well that fracas was caused in the first place by my attempting to ban the use of anti-homosexual slurs here in the first place.

Tell me something - do you happen to have friends in the Israeli government or military?

Is that why I'm getting the bum's rush, the manipulation, and the libel treatment?

[kali o.]

Oh, there are people here I might apologize to, kali.

Well hurry up and get on that. Be a man.

[Replay]

If I see anyone who truly deserves one, I'll let you know.

Tort might deserve one over a conversation I can recall from many years ago - but, like most of the more active posters here with a great deal to contribute - he left long ago, it seems.

And I can't think of anyone else that I am inclined to apologize to at present - mostly because most people here supported Brendan (Sine) when he tried to post my address here and spark a witchhunt against me a few years ago, as I recall.

I certainly don't owe one to you; and as for your assertion that I owe one to the community - well, if half your reasons for wanting me to give one were not made up entirely and the rest rather distorted, I would consider it.

But you want an apology for "fag-bashing"; as I recall - it was me who wanted the use of the word "homo" discouraged here in the first place. I don't remember that you ever did anything to stop the torrent of homophobic language here until you saw it as an opportunity to score points and take power. And I'm still curious as to why this sparks such a strong response in you - do you believe you can distort my role deliberately for personal gain, or is there more at stake personally for you?

And you want an apology for "anti-Semitism"; but I am Jewish - and criticism of Israel is not anti-Semitism. You might consider noting that even Israel's own politician Shulamit Aloni noted that the "anti-Semitism" smear is a tactic used to delegitimate Israel's critics.



I will certainly say that it was never my intention to hurt anyone's feelings here - until my own were disregarded.

As I have noted, I don't think you realize or remember how bad many people here - yourself included - really have been to me here. Even now I came back with a pleasant tone - until I got insulted over and over. The second I started endorsing a new investigation into 9/11, I became a nonentity to many here, effectively stripped of my status as a person - I've seen that syndrome used to bully "conspiracy theorists" many times, trust me. And I will also note that when I tried to stop Flip from being homophobic out of habit over the "Tony Homo" slurs that sparked the other major debate I learned the other major lesson; which was that if one tries to juxtapose oneself in the middle of someone's kneejerk bullying, that person usually becomes the new target.

Suffice it to say that if I thought your desire for an apology was sincere - and not just another power play - I might consider one for the feelings I've clearly hurt here. For such grudges to be borne against me for the years they have - I must have stung more than I thought, during those old fights.

But I don't think it is. I think some others here might want an apology. I think you want me to bow and scrape, and kiss the ring; and I find the thought purely distasteful.

[kali o.]

I didn't read "sorry" in the first few lines, so I didn't bother reading the rest. I did catch the youtube title...said anti-Semitic or something. Got me thinking...If I type Andrew Hall/Seidman, along with an adjective like crazy/Nazi/bigot, how many google hits do you think I would get? I bet you get more than a normal person (ie. zero hits). I'll try it after, but if I am right, does that tell you anything?

Get better man. You are still not well, whether you know that or not. When I made that initial terrorist comment, I was being snarky...but also honest. You are confused, lost and delusional. You are a liar but don't realize it. You are narcissistic but a perpetual victim. You are a very familiar profile for another McVeigh or, even scarier, Magnotta.

I am ashamed Society and your family have failed to help you. I sincerely hope you don't hurt yourself or others...and if you ever find yourself considering it, please remember this thread and accept there is a very real possibility you are not thinking clearly.

Good luck kiddo.

[Replay]

I didn't read "sorry" in the first few lines, so I didn't bother reading the rest.

Oh good! No doubt you have a lot to tell me about "being a man", right? Because that's what men do! If they don't get what they want right away, they go "TL:DR:" and sulk start talking shit?

I don't think you have ever matured past childhood in your own head. You won't read it because you're afraid to read it. Man up, kali.

Got me thinking...If I type Andrew Hall/Seidman, along with an adjective like crazy/Nazi/bigot, how many google hits do you think I would get?

Try it! Don't just start talking shit like a coward! Go actually back up your sadism!

Something tells me that you tried it already - and didn't find anything you could use, right?

All I find is I find one comment *I* made condemning retired Lt. Col. James Zumwalt for his suggestion that we need a "Final Solution" to the "seed of Ishmael" - condemning him for using the same language against the Arabs that the Nazis used against my people, in fact.

See, the only person calling me those names in a highly public way is you. And it takes a truly sad sack of cowardly shit to call someone a Nazi just for criticizing Israel; particularly when that someone is a Jew as well. There have been Jews who condemned Zionism for the violation of Mosaic law it really is for years.

If you feel like finding out more about the Jews who condemn the IDF for murder and war crimes, feel free to check out some of their material. (You'll probably get mad, throw a tantrum like a child, and call them Nazis too; but this movement has been dealing with such nonsense for years and knows exactly how to handle it.)

http://www.truetorahjews.org/

Hence - why I owe you no apologies whatsoever.

I am ashamed Society and your family have failed to help you. I sincerely hope you don't hurt yourself or others...

I'd say the same thing about you - but I know full well you'll go hurt whoever you want to! You've taken pleasure in cruelty and pain for years. Let's revisit the op:

I won't lie -- I felt terrorist envy. We have one confused dude rush unobstructed into our government building, armed (that he could is embarrassing). One person dead. I feel bad for the loss of life and all, but it's no 9/11...or hell, any Wednesday in the Middle East.

Go tell the victim's family that you felt like his murder was "no 9/11", you spineless bully!

I was being snarky...but also honest.

Oh, I know you THINK you have the right to cast aspersions on whoever you want.

But like I said - you don't have anything to tell me. If I really get tired enough of all of this, I'll just write some letters about this site on the THIRD issue I've tried to make a difference in over the years - the piracy issue.

As I recall, your official stance here as a moderator has been to permit endless torrents of copyrighted material. As a content producer myself, it's sat really very poorly over the years with me that you all have taken a site I originally intended to be about intellectual debate and discussion (and human kindness, for that matter) and turned it into a second-rate pirate bay. There are no real, relevant positives to having my name associated with a group of people who have committed thousands of dollars in copyright fraud over the years.

Be thankful that I don't hate you and seek to destroy your reputation as much as you hate me and seek to destroy mine; or I'd have done it already. If the only people I thought it would affect were you and Brendan I'd do it in a heartbeat. Getting this site shut down for Federal-level piracy would teach you both a great lesson about humility.

But I keep coming back to the notion that - as spineless as the copyright thefts I see here are, as sad as your cruelty is - the only person THAT would actually be likely to seriously affect would be Brendan and Shel's kid (or possibly kids, by now); and they don't deserve to grow up in a household slapped by lawsuits or wracked by poverty just because you and Brendan aren't very kind or ethical people.

I'm just sorry that a thief and a sadist thinks he is a man; or has anything to tell me about being one.

You'll never change. There's something deeply wrong with you. I'm sorry YOUR family failed to help YOU, kali - by letting you grow up into an "adult" who is nothing but a third-rate house flipper, and a content thief - and someone who obviously condones and enjoys the murder of other people. It really doesn't surprise me that you have aligned with Israel's axis, given all of this; every one of those cruelties has a corresponding analogue in the Israeli government.

Enjoy aligning yourself with a government that sent "art students" to the Towers in vans with this on the sides:



Maybe one day YOU'LL man up, stop stealing, actually finish debates you start, stop taking pleasure in suffering and death, and stop lying about other people just because they call you out on your disaffect and sadism.

But it won't be today.

I will not wish you good luck in return. Since the Republicans just retook the Senate down here, you and AIPAC will have "luck" enough already fostering more endless war in the Middle East for profit and personal cruelty, no doubt. I'll save the luck for surviving the decade to come, and the potential wars to come. I already saw Republicans and people affiliated with Israel and Goldman cheering about the possibility of going to war with Iran by 2015, and/or salivating at the natural gas profits associated with completing the NATO takeover of the Ukraine Hunter Biden started at Burisma.

I lit another candle last night for those who will die of the Israeli/Iranian conflicts to come in upcoming years; as they are undoubtedly coming, whether that war is declared or fought as it is now using mostly black ops.

I just don't feel like juxtaposing myself in the middle of it all anymore.

As I've said before - the primary lesson I have learned from this community, and it is a sad one, is that no one can force anyone else to stop fighting, bullying, or stealing. And those who try simply find the fighting, bullying, or thefts transferred into hatred and slander against their own names.

[Shrinweck]

As I recall, your official stance here as a moderator has been to permit endless torrents of copyrighted material. As a content producer myself, it's sat really very poorly over the years with me that you all have taken a site I originally intended to be about intellectual debate and discussion (and human kindness, for that matter) and turned it into a second-rate pirate bay. There are no real, relevant positives to having my name associated with a group of people who have committed thousands of dollars in copyright fraud over the years.

.

Uh.... What are you talking about? Not sure I remember one incident of this let alone 'thousands of dollars in copyright fraud.' Did you just look at the names of threads in the other forums, see titles of games and movies and television and just assume there were torrents contained within?

It's a lot of fun to be preached at about the community by someone who hasn't even been part of the community for 5% of the time I've been actively posting.

[Replay]

Not sure I remember one incident of this let alone 'thousands of dollars in copyright fraud.' Did you just look at the names of threads in the other forums, see titles of games and movies and television and just assume there were torrents contained within?

Shrin! I moderated this page on and off for years! I saw all the links people were posting to torrent and download sites. Some people here pursue content piracy with the zeal of heroin junkies, with a similar reaction if anyone suggests cutting off the flow. Please don't push this concept that there hasn't been a great deal of piracy here over the years; the record won't bear it out - at least not unless an admin goes back through the archives and removes the links; which would suit me just fine.

It's a lot of fun to be preached at about the community by someone who hasn't even been part of the community for 5% of the time I've been actively posting.

I understand that.

And yet I made the site, all the way back in 1997. Therefore, if anyone ELSE gets extremely litigious about anything here, the piracy or whatnot - I can still be named in a lawsuit.

Thus if I were as selfish as some seem to think I am - it would be far more advantageous to me to report it before anyone else does.

I'm not. I have no real desire to get Brandon or "kali" here slapped with some RIAA, ESB, or MPA lawsuit. Despite kal trying over and over to compare me to people who butchered millions, and Brandon doing his little community-justice-let's-go-look-up-his-old-address thing (really - how "Nazi" was that?) - I don't particularly enjoy such overreactions.

Thankfully, America has not yet slipped into such fascism that people can be thrown in prison just because others accuse them falsely of terrorism. Europe however is sliding in that direction. Were I living in Britain, France, South Africa, ANY part of the Second or Third World, or any number of other nations without such free speech protections, I could actually face charges just because of what kal is saying about me - so, God Bless the Constitution.

Despite the efforts of ACTUAL fascists the world over to weaken it, it is not dead yet.

I just want them to stop lying about me and trying to inspire witchhunts against me; and for the community to try to LISTEN to me before judging me and comparing me to history's greatest killers - speaking of overreactions! Within a day of my posting about ISIS I had you calling me an "anti-Semite", kali calling me a "terrorist" - goodness, people, how would you respond to being treated this way?

[Shrinweck]

I'm sorry but once again, what piracy? Please show me one incidence of this in the last five years. Let alone "thousands of dollars" worth. You don't get to preach about problems that have been long gone. You're pulling things that have nothing to do with what has been happening lately as if they vindicate you and damn him. Here's a newsflash: none of us really care. Basically everyone is just standing by for the entertainment value which I'm guessing is starting to wear thin. You think that these issues that you're bringing up have been center stage for the entire time you've been gone.

They haven't been.

You think that kali has spent this entire time being nasty to us. He hasn't been. You bring it out of him. And there are lots of reasons why. They've been told to you in other posts. Is it fair? Well, not really. Is it nice? Certainly not. But has it been done.... Yes. You've said that you have grown but even saying that tells me that you haven't. Growth isn't something you come to perceive in yourself. It largely comes from what others perceive from you. Being satisfied with oneself is its own reward, but trying to actively convince others to be satisfied with you is just the epitome of childishness to me.

[Eric]

Here's a newsflash: none of us really care.

[kali o.]

Lets be fair, I only respond to this guy based on what he says and how he acts now. He's the poor fella hung up and bringing up the past. Kudos to you trying to have a conversation with him (or hell, even reading his posts)...but he is too far gone in his delusions for you to get anywhere...you know that, right?

On a serious note (what I really think), I really hope you get better Mental. I know its not all you, its your illness. I'm not a professional, I can't help, but I can see you are getting worse. Even though I find your rants & reactions funny (in small doses), I hope it all goes well with you in the future...whatever that means.

Here's a newsflash: none of us really care.

Lies...you clicked the topic! It is wearing a little thin though.

[Shrinweck]

More of a reference to no one caring about the few ACTUAL issues he's been dredging up with the community. I'm sorry I'm not sorry that we can't compare to the arguments he can get into on a site like Gawker. The whole founder status thing that got brought up is kind of mystifying to me since it's a form of elitism (is that the right word? at the very least it's patronizing) I've never seen on this board. It was high quality bait for me.

And, yeah, I'm getting a sense of that, kali. Just caught me in a week where I was feeling argumentative but little I ever actually want to talk about gets responded to, so I've run out of steam after my last post.

[Eric]

More of a reference to no one caring about the few ACTUAL issues he's been dredging up with the community. I'm sorry I'm not sorry that we can't compare to the arguments he can get into on a site like Gawker. The whole founder status thing that got brought up is kind of mystifying to me since it's a form of elitism (is that the right word? at the very least it's patronizing) I've never seen on this board. It was high quality bait for me.

And, yeah, I'm getting a sense of that, kali. Just caught me in a week where I was feeling argumentative but little I ever actually want to talk about gets responded to, so I've run out of steam after my last post.

Hey, you have your own custom title. That's better then some of us veterans. :p

[Shrinweck]

lol I don't even really want it but it definitely fit the situation since I derailed like three threads in two days or whatever it was.

[kali o.]

Hey guys, I just wanted to give a heads up...might not post for awhile, moving to Greenland for a bit. Mentals threat had me tossing and turning all night, and I believe he is willing to sell this whole place out and expose us as the pirates haven we are. All he needs to do is write the FBI, explain he created messageboards and link some posts. Sorry folks, last thing I need is my life ruined because I allegedly downloaded Black & White or a bootleg copy of spiderman years ago. Piracy is never worth it but shame on you Mental for trying to ruin my life based on actions in my youth!

Sine, when you read this I will probably already be set up in Greenland. Get in touch with me and I am sure I can help you get your family settled over here. God bless.

[Replay]

The whole founder status thing that got brought up is kind of mystifying to me since it's a form of elitism (is that the right word? at the very least it's patronizing) I've never seen on this board.

Not my intention to patronize or act "elitist" at all. I just worked hard originally to start the site. It would be nice not to get compared to HISTORY'S GREATEST MURDERERS.

You know who actually collaborated with the Nazis, though?

George W. Bush's grandfather, Prescott.

George Bush's grandfather, the late US senator Prescott Bush, was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany.
The Guardian has obtained confirmation from newly discovered files in the US National Archives that a firm of which Prescott Bush was a director was involved with the financial architects of Nazism.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/s ... ndworldwar

You know who else actually collaborated with the Nazis - or tried to?

The founder of Lehi - the so-called "Stern Gang" - an Israeli terrorist group active in the 1940's which also assassinated the British minister of the region. The IDF offers a "Lehi medal" to this day to commemorate them.

In January 1941, Stern attempted to make an agreement with the German Nazi authorities, offering to "actively take part in the war on Germany's side" in return for German support for Jewish immigration to Palestine and the establishment of a Jewish state. Another attempt to contact the Germans was made in late 1941, but there is no record of a German response in either case.[12]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avraham_Stern

------------------------

Really - if it'll help, I *will* apologize to anyone whose feelings I've hurt here over the years.

Like I said, it was never my intention to get into these fights, or hurt anyone's feelings, or anything else that caused strife and drama.

What I won't apologize for is the information I keep presenting to you.

My country has elected a family TWICE now, that ACTUALLY collaborated with the Nazis, to the PRESIDENCY in my lifetime - and they're talking about running Jeb in 2016 for a three-peat. I saw the United States I love rescind cooperation with the Geneva Convention and officially sanction the use of torture under these people. And I see the same troubling behavior in Israel today that others saw in Germany in the 1930's, that preceded the Second World War - during Protective Edge earlier this year, as I've said before, militant youth groups went around in the streets literally shouting "Death to leftists, death to Arabs" and attacking people - and apparently, rather than arresting them, the Netanyahu government gave them POLICE PROTECTION.

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/fascists- ... -activists

It is because I *do* care about the health of Judaism that I'm speaking out against this. This is the start of actual fascism going on over there; and the West doesn't want to see it because everyone is afraid that they'll get called "anti-Semitic" for pointing out that certain groups in Israel today are acting VERY much like certain groups in Germany circa 1937 or 1938. The things I'm seeing going on are very, very bad and troubling; a danger to human life, and to world freedom. Disagreeing with me is one thing and the right of every freethinker out there; but comparing me to people who slaughtered millions - no, I won't sit by idly without protecting my reputation.

Really, though - I'm tired of all these fights too.

I wish everyone here the best. Even you, kali.

You folks have a good night.

[Don]

Kali's post reminds me of this guy:

[Shrinweck]

These entire threads have been making me want to post this



And this



And this

[kali o.]

Lol at Don posting a joke. I like those skits too - only had time to watch the moon one but i'll check the rest later.

Id totally love to debate mental...probably starting simple by pointing out any *facts* he has shared are well known by any semi-informed individual and all he is doing is extrapolating instances of isolated racism or bigotry to entire populations (and in some cases, outright fabricated propaganda)...but if he cant respect his audience (at least everyone but me), why bother (and I fully admit I made it harder for him to apologize by exploiting his swelled ego)? I already know he wont listen to a word I say and just make vague appeals to authority and explaining how he is more jewish, gay, moral, educated and connected than us lemmings.


(Ps - just waiting on my passport!)

[Shrinweck]

For me, damning an entire family's future for the sins of its past just didn't really seem worth responding to. Also because all but two sentences of his post were in response to an old post by kali. I spent an entire minute wondering how me calling something he said elitist linked to my calling him a Nazi before I realized he'd gone all the way back to addressing one of your posts, kali lol

[Replay]

For me, damning an entire family's future for the sins of its past just didn't really seem worth responding to.

You have got to be kidding.

First of all, we're talking about American Nazi collaborators here with connections to high office.

That's not just sin; it's terror - and despite the allegations of some who hate me here, I am very, very opposed to fascism in all its forms.

Second - what about the sins of its present?

The last scion of that family authorized wars costing $2t or more and killed about 500,000 Middle Easterners or more; several thousand needless military American deaths under him as well as well as the crumbling of a vast great portion of American infrastructure.

His dad - HW - narrowly avoided prosecution over a pedophile ring busted in 1991, escaping only due to his authority as President and former director of a major espionage agency; he's been well known for years in quiet Washington circles for quiet liasons with men of dubious age.

Do you understand that they're prepping Jeb for a 2016 run right now?

Do you think that man is going to turn over a new leaf and be an honest man all of a sudden if he gets elected? This is a mob family in all but name! People who are born into major arms trafficking groups aren't allowed by their families to turn over a new leaf and go straight; it's bad for the family business.

And I see Wall Street types on message boards NOW salivating over the thought of a war with Iran that is likely to cost $1t and drive gas prices up to $6+ - very good for them; very terrible for everyone else on the planet.

Do you think John Wheeler ended up dead in a landfill because that axis is comprised of very good people?

You ought to be worried about THEM damning YOUR future - but the problem is, Shrinny - well, I'll let Douglas Adams describe the syndrome I'm talking about:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somebody_Else's_Problem

[Replay]

Thing that kills ME about all of this - I point out that Israel just killed a bunch of kids in really pretty awful ways - and I get called a Nazi for saying it, despite being Jewish.

But somehow when it comes to our celebrity political families, they ACTUALLY work with the Nazis and somehow it's "For me, damning an entire family's future for the sins of its past just didn't really seem worth responding to."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

[Shrinweck]

Not defending them as saints, but surely not damning them as Nazis. Pretty big fucking difference. I've had enough of this. I'm done with this thread, too. Congratulations on making another thread too vile for me to give a shit about. Somehow whenever I get into replying with you I'm always put into the corner as something I'm not. So just keep doing your thing if that's working for you, but stop envisioning me as some hardline opposite to you/villain whenever I disagree with one of your posts.

And you keep talking at me as if I had anything to do with ever calling you a Nazi. Knock it the hell off. Condescending ass. Going to take everyone's advice and just stop engaging.

[Replay]

Not defending them as saints, but surely not damning them as Nazis. Pretty big fucking difference.

And yet when kali damns me as one, you say nothing.

I've had enough of this. I'm done with this thread, too. Congratulations on making another thread too vile for me to give a shit about.

I feel the same way. When the Bushes can kill hundreds of thousands of people and work with actual Nazis and get a pass - but somehow I get called one for being critical of Israel, despite being Jewish, despite never having killed or seriously hurt anyone, ever, and nobody speaks in my own defense but me - there's something vile going on indeed.

Somehow whenever I get into replying with you I'm always put into the corner as something I'm not.

Oh, the goddamned irony. You really don't realize how bad to me you have been here, do you?

So just keep doing your thing if that's working for you, but stop envisioning me as some hardline opposite to you/villain whenever I disagree with one of your posts.

And you keep talking at me as if I had anything to do with ever calling you a Nazi. Knock it the hell off. Condescending ass. Going to take everyone's advice and just stop engaging.

No, you just sat there, called me "anti-Semitic" even though I'm Jewish, then condoned it and sided with kali when HE did.

A real saint, you are.

I only wish you'd see things from my shoes, or even try. But that ship sailed long ago when I started asking people here to be better to each other in ways they weren't prepared to be better to each other in - stopping all the piracy, stopping the homophobic slurs, and asking for an investigation into the greatest terrorist act ever to occur on American soil.

[Replay]

Know what I don't get? Why massive numbers of rural and conservative Southerners are all of a sudden painting themselves as "defenders of Israel" and attacking people for "anti-Semitism" when I know damned well that before 9/11 a lot of Southern "activism" towards Jews involved a white hood and a black, dark night on which evidence could be concealed.

But suddenly now that's all changed. Rural Southerners are bullying blacks, Arabs, Latinos, and just about anyone else not white - OR Zionist Jewish, since 9/11.

Seems the legendary anti-Semitism of the South has finally been curbed - sort of.

http://www.jpost.com/LifeStyle/Religiou ... ews-360010

But forgive me if I don't exactly believe any of you are out attempting to defend the honor of world Jewry.

The real Jewish Commandments against false witness, land theft and murder are pretty clear - but Israel has broken every one of them again and again. I have screenshots of an Israeli threatening to rape and murder my family; another who said he'd have me sent to a concentration camp. That's ACTUAL Nazi behavior; but because you don't understand how the abused become the abusers - you'll spit hate at me for saying it.



But I'm starting to get it, I think. Much of the South has low self-esteem, has never gotten over its defeat in the Civil War - and is perpetually looking for a fight. So when Israel came along, bombed New York and told the South the Arabs did it - that was reason enough yet again for the downtrodden poor in the South to get angry; this time at Muslims en masse.

You don't feel the need to actually investigate, because you're not conscientious enough; but as long as you hate the right people you can be part of the lynch mob, right?

Israel and the South do share one thing in common - bloodthirst, a culture of honor, and a desire for vengeance on anyone who attacks their "honor". And of course - people align emotionally with other people they share emotions with, not logic. I listened to a speaker at E3 one year talk about how the world really runs on emotion and not logic. Sadly for me - at the time, I wasn't even sure I believed him! So this Israeli-Southern axis of bullying will align with the Islamophobes in Scandinavia and France, no doubt - and continue perpetuating this VILE smear of "anti-Semitism" on anyone who rightfully points out that Israel has become the same kind of butcher it pretends to condemn; and maybe always has been.

I'm just over it myself, Shrin. I'm tired of getting called "condescending" when I have been treated like dirt on someone's shoe ever since the day I broke with the official 9/11 story and started asking for a new investigation. You wouldn't put up with the names you call me if it wasn't me you were yelling at.

I'm tired of watching Republicans in South Carolina cheer the thought of war against the Union again, while anti-Muslim redneck gun range owner Jan Morgan starts banning Muslims from all her stores and condoning death threats made by her customers against Arabs en masse, and nobody says anything because it's suddenly "okay" to be a bigot in America now if you hate the right people. I'm tired of watching people with names like "NWO666" post defenses of Wall Street on Business Insider while homeless people die in the streets.

I'm sick of the national heartlessness, quite frankly. I do not apologize for my opinions. The country will get the governance it deserves, no doubt - either Hillary or Jeb or Ted Cruz; some Goldman-financed nightmare hiding mass thefts behind a blue or red veneer - and no real justice against those who stole trillions in LIBOR will ever happen. No real justice against Halliburton and Blackwater/Xe war crimes will ever happen; nor any real justice against IDF war crimes and the ethnic cleansing of the settlements.

Of course, this kind of occupational, racially divided, plunder-oriented economy goes deep in our American soul too...no wonder Indian rights advocates are so fond of saying there is never justice on stolen land.

[Replay]

but if he cant respect his audience (at least everyone but me), why bother (and I fully admit I made it harder for him to apologize by exploiting his swelled ego)

My own respect here was revoked the day I asked people to stop using the word "homo".

It was further revoked when I began questioning the official account of 9/11.

You give what you get, kali. It is becoming impossible for me to engage in respectful debate here after the vicious things I am called when I express my own opinions. But as I have said - you forget you even do it; because to you, anything I am called - up to and including "Nazi" - is justifiable; but if I call anyone any names in response I'm supposed to have "respect for my audience" instead?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule

[Replay]

I'd love more than anyone else here to sit down and have a clean, respectful debate. I've missed the way it once was, here.

It is impossible when I'm called an "anti-Semite" and worse the moment I step in the room - despite my own Jewish heritage.

[Oracle]

I'd love more than anyone else here to sit down and have a clean, respectful debate. I've missed the way it once was, here.

Then please stop carpet bombing threads with bullshit, and I'd personally recommend steering clear of debates on politics and/or religion.

Your own actions have brought the lack of respect you receive here upon yourself.

[kali o.]

FYI - there is nothing green about Greenland. This was a bad decision.

On topic...Hey Mental, you ever consider people throw anti-Semite (or whatever) at you because that's the impression you are putting out there? Perhaps it has nothing to do with people hating (justified/baseless) you (or your opinions) over past issues (real/imagined) that you seem to be hung up on...

Have you considered that and just dismissed it?

[Replay]

Not at all. People accuse me of "anti-Semitism" because the Israeli government trains the world public to immediately denounce anyone who accuses the Israeli government of war crimes as an "anti-Semite".

Had any of you watched the interview between Israeli politician Shulamit Aloni and American reporter Amy Goodman, you would see Aloni admitting to the practice.

I've had a wonderful few days and actually wanted to come back and apologize en masse for the rudeness; but I again worry that you will all take such an apology as a retraction of my positions. And again - you don't seem sorry for comparing me to history's greatest killers.

Israel killed about five hundred non-combatant Palestinian children just this year - so why is it I who have killed no one am the monster but the killing of noncombatant children by the IDF raises no eyebrows...?

[Replay]

Look...maybe you all do deserve more respect than I have given.

I apologize unconditionally for my offenses here over the last few years. No doubt I have been out of line many times - including the time a few years ago that I wanted to hit you, kali. I have no doubt that this is what you are still angry about to this day.

I do however stand by my position on the war crimes of the Israeli army. This is not about "protection" any longer for them. The tactics being used - including the slaying of noncombatant children - violate the Geneva Convention and most international law against cruelty in wartime.

[kali o.]

Stand back...this is gonna be the only post I will offer that is 100% good intentioned....

Ok, so you've disregarded it. And it is the world that has the perverted (trained) perspective...and not you. Cool, fair enough.

While I suppose I could point out the inherent logical problems with that assumption, I have a feeling you'd take it personally and feel attacked. So let me say this...

Anyone that has reached the level where the following could be posted and taken at face value....



...then the unfortunate reality is that person is sick. Not sick as in twisted, but mentally unwell, and willing to absorb anything whatsoever to vilify & hate the target group (in this case, jews). This is not a debate. This is not an opinion. This is fact. If, for some reason, you can't see this or disagree with *me* specifically (and note: I am not saying you believe the content of the photo...) - maybe consider talking to an unbias professional and get their opinion. Hell, maybe you have a well educated trusted family member even...show them this thread/photo. I promise, they will echo my thoughts.

See, the problem is if everyone views you as hateful or confused, the conversation is always going trend back to you. Then you are going to interpret that as a personal attack (which to an extent, it is and has to be). And nothing goes anywhere on the actual topic. And what you need to understand is this is not in ANY way related to an opinion I (or anyone else) happen to disagree with. In fact, I could easily have a conversation with someone about Zionism and policy in Israel (and western support) -- but the basic framework has to be grounded in reality, logic and absent of hate. I bet you'd be surprised, on that topic, where I actually stand.

So strongly consider maybe, just maybe it is not the world that is confused. Look at that photo and think about why you would be willing to accept it at face value. Talk to an unbias source if you require additional perspective.

[Replay]

Did I or did I not call it when I noted that if I offered an apology you'd reject it?

[Replay]

Thank you, however, for posting the meme indicating Tzipora Menache's putrid condemnation of the United States.

Thank you also by continuing to weaken your own position by accusing me of "hating Jews" when I have indicated my own Jewish ancestry to you many times.

Despite your tendencies at dishonesty about me - sadly I believe that YOU actually believe this about me. I don't know how many times I can tell you that as a Jew myself - or at the very least a part of one - I condemn Israel precisely because they are shattering Moses' law and Torah law - particularly the part where God commands one to love one's neighbors as oneself.

But it does not surprise me that you choose not to have that discussion...because you and your "terrorist envy" break it too.

Have a good day. I am sorry your mind is so small that it literally cannot operate outside of the framework in which you paint me as the hateful villain but feel no remorse for the thousands of people killed by the IDF this year alone.

[kali o.]

Did I or did I not call it when I noted that if I offered an apology you'd reject it?

Uhhh..I didnt "reject" anything (nor did I want you apologize to *me*). However, you did sort of apologize to others...for vague reasons, missing the actual point. I thought it only fair I offer you some idea of my position for that (which I did).

I was hoping my post would help push you to at least a little introspection. I wasnt expecting success, but I am still amazed that nothing (nothing!) I said filtered through to you, including my on topic opinion. You've erected a mental concrete bunker nothing can penetrate. Smash my face on the keyboard or well thought out arguments...you will just read what you want.

I genuinely hoped against hope. That "meme"is a good test. If you ever revisit it and begin to question it...you are on the right track.

Back to ignoring or toying with you. Yes, I am connected to the jewish shadowy elite and Israel. Google Hudson Pacific Properties.

[Replay]

I hoped against hope as well.


I hoped I could express a perfectly rational opinion that Israel's settlements and war policies are out of line without getting called a Nazi.

No suck luck, eh?

I am sorry that you cannot grasp the concept that I may be Jewish and yet be opposed to the Israeli government.

[kali o.]

Smh...

Not at ALL my position and your self identification as jewish or homosexual (real or imagined) has zero to do with my comments or your opinions. Zero.

[Replay]

Well kal, you have gotten my position quite wrong as well.

You refuse to believe Ellner and the other Israelis arrested for filming the attacks and cheering could have been up to anything nefarious; or that it is possible that Menache could have actually said what she did.

So the compass on your head which checks against what others actually say spins off its axis; and re enters on the notion that I must "hate Jews" in order to believe such things.

I do not. I am partially Jewish myself by blood; my last name alone would have had me sent to the camps in 1940s Germany. I have about as much chance of genuinely sympathizing with Nazi ideology as you do - which is to say, zero.

But this is what a Big Lie does. Look up "Grobe Luge" if you are interested. It is an old tactic; a government commits terror so heinous that its own people refuse to believe it could have done it. That government is then free to paint anyone who calls for investigation as mentally unbalanced, or a liar, or a racist.

To me the position that Ellner and the others should not be investigated for taping and cheering the murder of three thousand of our people is as ludicrous as my positions no doubt are to you.

Be well.

[Replay]

Since you've clearly given up on the discussion - I just want to know something before you all go back to the cave of shadows; and me to getting trashed for telling you the truth.

Why has it been so important for you to lie about me?

You know as well as I do that I was the one who tried to get the use of the word "homo" disallowed here; and that was what led to the blowup that got you your administratorship in the first place.

But since then you have gone out of your way to get people to forget that, and paint me as a "gay-basher".

So, why?

What does it all do for you?

[Shellie]

Holy shit. I better tell Brendan/SineSwiper that we gotta pack up the kid(singular, thank you) and run from the feds! There are links to torrent sites on here y'all (somewhere, apparently)! I wonder if Google knows it's probably next.

Seriously, is this still a thing you all? I though I'd check in on a sleepless Monday night and holy hell....

[Replay]

Shellie, believe it or not, I hate this shit as much as you do.

I have a slight problem, however - one evidenced by Gordon Gekko here (kal) and his reaction to me.

I tried once upon a time to found this place in accordance with the principles of respectful debate.

When I came back and - at first - respectfully tried to present evidence about Isr. involvement in IS and about the five dancing men arrested for filming the attacks on our country and cheering, I got no such respect back. shrin called me anti-Semitic, kal called me a Nazi or close to it - then I started giving back as good as I got, and suddenly it was time for a lecture on respect.

I want to remind people that the actual Nazis murdered a lot of my people. Also - even though this is not something that should need saying - that I have never killed anyone.

The unfortunate thing about a reaction like kali's is the way he immediately went looking for other conversations to "prove him right". And if you will note - unless. Memory fails me, he did not go looking for proof that I had ever said anything that would indicate such leanings myself (for the record, again, I do not endorse any Nazi sentiments and never will; the Jewish blood in me that kal implies is invalid is valid, and finds the idea putrid) - he went looking for "other people calling me a Nazi".

I would estimate it safe to say he found nothing of reasonable note...but now there is at least one conversation where a lot of people are, without basis,calling me a Nazi or close to it. So the zero conversations he found rises now at least to one, and unfortunately for me a lot of people will believe such things no matter what I say in my own defense.

I am quite tired of the online lynch mob that pops up any time anyone points out that the I'd f murders a lot of people under the auspices of justified warfare.

That army's tactics are much closer lately to the actual Nazis than anything I will ever do. They have sanctioned child killing and torture and false witness, and AS a Jew I have the right to point out deviations from the way of good in my own people.

Kalis are too, sadly. Looking at what your neighbors mutter about other people to justify hatred and ostracism was a hallmark of 1930s Germany.

I would love to reboot this discussion on a better framework. I have offered apologies...but people don't want them.