The Shrine

Interesting discussion. In a way it's a typical JRE interview: Joe Rogan bounces his pet ideas off of Elon, deep stoner talk. Elon appears awkward & halting throughout the interview. He opens up more as the podcast progresses (& imbibes a little). You get glimpses of his overactive engineer/inventor mind & a glimpse at a profound sadness underneath.

...and of course there's Elon smoking a blunt around 2:10:00.

I've been meaning to give this one a listen at some point. The first thing I heard was the blunt part, and some news sources conflating it with Justin McAnear and Dave Morton leaving the company. Justin McAnear has stated the reason for his departure is amicable, and simply that a better opportunity for him came along and has directly shot down allegations that it had anything to do with Elon Musk smoking weed or anything else.

But, regardless of how people feel about the guy, IMO he's probably the most interesting person in the world currently with all his recent accomplishments, and getting people talking about space again.

And yeah, he's highly successful, but in one of the most stressful positions, anyone could be in as far as people with enough money go. He SHOULD consider marijuana. Relaxing in a hammock with an ebook, some video games, and some weed can make a 1 day weekend as refreshing as a 2.5-3 day. Probably great for people in his field.

Use of or possession of cannabis gets you fired/barred from employment at Tesla. Full stop. Even the programmers at Panasonic for his batteries are drug tested and can't smoke weed at home.

There's a hypocrisy there. If weed is too dangerous for people on the factory floor assembling cars, it's also too dangerous for the CEO making decisions about that factory floor - which has already been hit with accusations that Elon doesn't follow proper safety procedures. And if it's not, it ought to be as legal for every janitor at Tesla as it is for Elon himself.

I like Elon, but right now he's fucking up big time. That tweet about "taking Tesla private" was almost certainly illegal if he hadn't secured any funding, and the market nearly immediately clobbered him for it. Bumpers are also falling off his $30,000 cars in the rain.

If Tesla were hitting it out of the park, weren't doing any drug testing, and if Elon had just hit several major milestones and *then* he went on Rogan's show and smoked a joint and exulted in how well things were going, this would be a fait accompli for him and for cannabis generally. That isn't what's going on here. Tesla is running out of money at an astonishing rate and could run out by next year, by many estimates. Several carmakers with very deep pockets have just entered the electric-vehicle area, and if Elon doesn't get it together he could lose control of his company.

2018 hasn't been a good year for his PR, that's for certain.

I wonder how much of that anti-weed BS is political positioning given his companies have federal contracts? Given how harsh and archaic some of the US federal policies are right now, I can see the underlying reason is an appeal to the current regime. From what I understand, I'll be barred from going to the US (potentially lifetime) because I plan to both invest and participate in the marijuana industry here in Canada. That should change in the future as the current wacky government has an expiration date before people start wanting a grown-up in the white house.

I say this without knowing a great deal about all the details, so correct me if I'm wrong, you probably know more than I do: It's not all bad news for Tesla though, they did hit a production milestone which shot their stock up to near record levels a month ago, and their revenue is on the rise. The real issue looks to be balancing the books; and improving their sales while closing that gap in a market with an expanding infrastructure shouldn't be the most difficult thing in the world.

Anyway, I'm going to listen to this podcast this afternoon.

Judging by a few things it didn't even really look like he inhaled lol

Musk resigns at request of SEC to avoid a lawsuit. Must pay $20m fine.

Wow.

https://gizmodo.com/elon-musk-resigns-a ... 1829417007

He only resigned as chairman, right? He's still supposed to keep his CEO title I believe. That probably should have happened regardless.

Suspended for 3 years from the position and a 20 million dollar fine - not a lot for someone who has over 20 billion. It’s roughly the equivalent of $200 for people with $200,000 in savings. It’s a slap on the wrist.

Julius Seeker wrote:Suspended for 3 years from the position and a 20 million dollar fine - not a lot for someone who has over 20 billion. It’s roughly the equivalent of $200 for people with $200,000 in savings. It’s a slap on the wrist.

Well, to be fair, you aren't suggesting more than a slap on the wrist was required, are you? If so though, can you clarify why?

Julius Seeker wrote:Suspended for 3 years from the position and a 20 million dollar fine - not a lot for someone who has over 20 billion. It’s roughly the equivalent of $200 for people with $200,000 in savings. It’s a slap on the wrist.

He does NOT "[have] over 20 billion". He is "worth about 20 billion", but that's not the same thing at all.

We absolutely have to change the way we discuss billionaire wealth in the modern world. Elon has a lot of stock in the companies he helped to found, and undoubtedly a reasonable amount of non-stock wealth that he's cashed out of (as most billionaires do, if he's smart). But no modern billionaire should be treated as if their wealth is like a savings account. Their fortunes are all stock-based. And none of them could convert that wealth to the equivalent amount of cash on their own, either - because selling off their vast holdings of stock would cause that stock's price to crater. Elon couldn't convert his fortune to $20b in cash on a bet, unless he found someone willing to buy him out of all his non-liquid holdings in their entireties.

It's more like the equivalent of $200 for someone with $10,000 in savings, and $190,000 in securities.

But even then, you have to remember that it's different - because the average stock investor can sell $190k of stock without any given market blinking an eye, and Elon definitely can't sell $15b+ of Tesla stock without making the front pages of half the newspapers in the world.

Is it still minor, and a slap on the wrist? Yes, but I'm sure it has to sting a little bit - probably as intended.

In any case, I agree with Kali (check for signs of the apocalypse) - the punishment seems appropriate to the crime, or even a little excessive. It was one tweet. It was a bad, stupid tweet, and it was indeed illegal, and there are a lot of good reasons to slap him on the wrist - but this is way different from a prolonged campaign to deceive, ladder his stock, pump-and-dump, and so on. Tesla's a legit company with a legit product, I have friends there, and they say things are actually going very well currently.

kali o. wrote:

Julius Seeker wrote:Suspended for 3 years from the position and a 20 million dollar fine - not a lot for someone who has over 20 billion. It’s roughly the equivalent of $200 for people with $200,000 in savings. It’s a slap on the wrist.

Well, to be fair, you aren't suggesting more than a slap on the wrist was required, are you? If so though, can you clarify why?

I am not. A little the opposite, actually. I'm no expert in fraud laws, but to me this sounds excessive - I can buy the fine since that had the chance to impact stock values, but a position suspension seems petty (even if in the end it is only symbolic).

Replay wrote:

Julius Seeker wrote:Suspended for 3 years from the position and a 20 million dollar fine - not a lot for someone who has over 20 billion. It’s roughly the equivalent of $200 for people with $200,000 in savings. It’s a slap on the wrist.

He does NOT "[have] over 20 billion". He is "worth about 20 billion", but that's not the same thing at all.

We absolutely have to change the way we discuss billionaire wealth in the modern world. Elon has a lot of stock in the companies he helped to found, and undoubtedly a reasonable amount of non-stock wealth that he's cashed out of (as most billionaires do, if he's smart). But no modern billionaire should be treated as if their wealth is like a savings account. Their fortunes are all stock-based. And none of them could convert that wealth to the equivalent amount of cash on their own, either - because selling off their vast holdings of stock would cause that stock's price to crater. Elon couldn't convert his fortune to $20b in cash on a bet, unless he found someone willing to buy him out of all his non-liquid holdings in their entireties.

It's more like the equivalent of $200 for someone with $10,000 in savings, and $190,000 in securities.

But even then, you have to remember that it's different - because the average stock investor can sell $190k of stock without any given market blinking an eye, and Elon definitely can't sell $15b+ of Tesla stock without making the front pages of half the newspapers in the world.

Is it still minor, and a slap on the wrist? Yes, but I'm sure it has to sting a little bit - probably as intended.

In any case, I agree with Kali (check for signs of the apocalypse) - the punishment seems appropriate to the crime, or even a little excessive. It was one tweet. It was a bad, stupid tweet, and it was indeed illegal, and there are a lot of good reasons to slap him on the wrist - but this is way different from a prolonged campaign to deceive, ladder his stock, pump-and-dump, and so on. Tesla's a legit company with a legit product, I have friends there, and they say things are actually going very well currently.

This would be more accurate than I wrote. I wasn't intending to be deceptive.

Oracle wrote:He only resigned as chairman, right? He's still supposed to keep his CEO title I believe. That probably should have happened regardless.

Yes. Remember, though, that this still represents a loss of power. The CEO of a company is subordinate only to its board - the board can fire the CEO, but not the other way around - so arguably the Chairman of the Board of any company is more powerful than its CEO.

Julius Seeker wrote:This would be more accurate than I wrote. I wasn't intending to be deceptive.

I know. For my part, I wasn't intending to be overly aggressive or pedantic. I just really think it's important to change the way the world thinks about wealth generally.

This is great: