The Shrine

<div style='font: 11pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light"; text-align: left; '><b>Link:</b> <a href="http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.a ... 74x">Blair suffers backbench revolt over Iraq</a>

Blair suffers crushing defeat on the path to war...</div>

<div style='font: 11pt Dominion; text-align: left; '>crushing? geez, with all of Saddam's refusing to dismantle illegal missles and such there'll eventually be a UN Resolution passed on this; if not the US can take out Saddam on our own</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>What illegal missles? Also, how is that reason for war?</div>

<div style='font: 11pt Dominion; text-align: left; '>It's a clear violation of a UN Resolution and he refuses to dismantle them, what else you want to do-- send in more inspectors? Cause if this has shown anything it's that Inspectors don't do shit. Saddam needs to be unseated from his throne and he aint' going to do so voluntarily</div>

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>Countries that have seen the results of war far more than most people in this country.</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>France and Germany pussies because they won't support Bush? Explain your logic there please.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt Arial; text-align: left; '>What holds true in some conflicts doesn't always hold true in others.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>Of course. But I think rationalizing their reluctance away as being pussies is short-sighted.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt Dominion; text-align: left; '>France wants more Inspectors which we all know has proved useless. France wants more evidence. The last time France wanted more evidence it rolled through Paris with a German flag</div>

<div style='font: 10pt Arial; text-align: left; '><b>Link:</b> <a href="http://www.policyreview.org/JUN02/kagan.html">Power and Weakness</a>

It's more than short-sighted. It's ridicule by caricature. In any case, I don't think France and Germany are so much terrified of military conflict than of continued American geopolitcal dominance, and of their own diminishing international importance. Check out this essay in Policy Review.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light"; text-align: left; '>We can force him to dismantle the weapons, though this doesn't have to involve "bombing the fuck outta Iraq".</div>

<div style='font: 11pt Dominion; text-align: left; '>who said we were doing that? How do you know what we're going to do in this war? (yes I used present tense-- Bush didn't use "ifs" in his last speech, he said when)</div>

<div style='font: 11pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light"; text-align: left; '>Ummm...I was talking about using the UN to force him to dismantle, not outright WAR.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light"; text-align: left; '>Man, you can't even get WW2 history right.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt Dominion; text-align: left; '>so a UN led force to invade? You're terribly naive if you think anything short of military force will stop this guy</div>

<div style='font: 11pt Dominion; text-align: left; '>uhm, no, I'm pretty sure France didn't want to believe Germany was gearing up for war until they went around their stupid maginot line</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>What the hell are you talking about now? France had its borders at full defense when Germany (who I might add was by far the most powerful nation in the world) attacked. You still haven't answered my question. How does not supporting Bush make France and Germany pussies?</div>

<div style='font: 11pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light"; text-align: left; '>No, dipomacy through the UN. You go to point A to point B to point C, not A --> Q.</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Yep, you certainly don't know your WWII history, #1 Germany was the most powerful nation in the world. #2 France and Great Britain declared war on Germany nearly a year before the occupation.</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Stop him from what exactly?</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>You flat out cannot be this dense</div>

<div style='font: 10pt Arial; text-align: left; '>France may have had their borders at full defense, but their fortifications were more geared towards the kind of trench warfare fought in the first WWI, not blitzkrieg. They had their asses handed to them.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>I bookmarked it. There's no way I have time to read something that long tonight.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>Apparently, he can.</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Especially considering that Germany (the aggressor) is one of the countries he called a "pussy". So far he hasn't even attempted to support his argument. I don't think he really has a clue what he's talking about.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt Dominion; text-align: left; '>after the first WW? France and England and the rest taxed the shit out of Germany to pay for their war debts</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>One, it seems you base your opinions purely off of the US news. Mind you, all of the news networks and many papers are very strongly biased towards a pro-war effort. And even if they do post any news that hurts the war effort, it will be promptly "rectified" within the hour (see "CNN").

Secondly, you seem to imply greater responsibilites upon these inspectors. What, exactly, do you expect them to do? And more importantly, what shit is it that they don't do? And if you answer that they don't dismantle/get rid of the missiles, that's because they're inspectors, not a clean up crew.

And also of note, I wouldn't call the French & Krauts "pussies". Considering that the US traditionally treats the UN like it's personal bitch, and all nations usually just go along with it because the USA is a pretty badass nation as far as influence and power goes, I think it's rather bold that any nation (excluding traditional opponents, e.g. Russia, China, Mid. East, etc.) would stand up so boldly, particularlly anybody from western Europe.</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Quite true. But Hitler was showing hostilites far before the outbreak of WW2. By the time France was invaded, they and the rest of Europe had long known that shit was about to fly.</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>That is completely irrelivant to anything that's been said.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt Dominion; text-align: left; '>no, because the poverty that caused gave Hitler the advantage he needed to take power.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt Dominion; text-align: left; '>uhm...how was Germany allowed to get to become that big? It was illegal for them to do so after WWI but as they did and word spread France wouldn't believe it and wanted more evidence before taking action. By the time they did it was too late and their asses got blitzkrieged</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>1) The Treaty of Versailles was a HUGE HUGE mistake, had it not been put in place Germany would have never become isolated. 2) Germany had several regime switches during that time, had the treaty of Versallies not been put in place, the fascist take-over in the mid 1930's would have never occurred.

Also, why are you saying France did not believe that Germany was preparing for invasion? Did you miss 9th grade history or something?

You still have not answered my question. Why are Germany and France pussies for not supporting Bush?</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>That was a result of the Treaty of Versailles sanctions in the first place. How is this at all relivant to the main argument?</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Why choose a time where many countries are just recovering from the recent global recession to chase after Saddam or all people?</div>