Inception

[Imakeholesinu]

Christopher Nolan is a fucking genius. That is all.

[Lox]

Greaaaaaaat! Just what I needed...another movie in the summer viewing list! haha

[Zeus]

Greaaaaaaat! Just what I needed...another movie in the summer viewing list! haha

Right up there with The Last Airbender (and its 8% fresh rating - http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/last_airbender) and Knight and Day? :-)

EDIT: Holy shit, Toy Story 3 has a 99% fresh rating, with only 3 of 225 not liking it? Wow
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/toy_story_3/

[Imakeholesinu]

You know, Leonardo DiCaprio has turned into an excellent actor. As has Joseph Gordon-Levitt. Both were just fucking phenominal in it. Also Tom Berenger is in it which I was like, holy shit I haven't seen him in a film in awhile!

[Lox]

Greaaaaaaat! Just what I needed...another movie in the summer viewing list! haha

Right up there with The Last Airbender (and its 8% fresh rating - http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/last_airbender) and Knight and Day? :-)

EDIT: Holy shit, Toy Story 3 has a 99% fresh rating, with only 3 of 225 not liking it? Wow
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/toy_story_3/

Ha!

Toy Story was one, but I saw that. I'd also like to see Despicable Me, Karate Kid, Scott Pilgrim, and Inception.

[Zeus]

Ha!

Toy Story was one, but I saw that. I'd also like to see Despicable Me, Karate Kid, Scott Pilgrim, and Inception.

I saw Toy Story as well, had to see the end of that trilogy. As for the other four, let's play a Sesame Street game:

"One of these things is different than the others, one of these things is not the same. Can you tell me which one doesn't belong?" :-)

[Zeus]

You know, Leonardo DiCaprio has turned into an excellent actor.

*laughs uncontrollably* Oh man, thanks for that. I needed a good laugh

[Blotus]

You know, Leonardo DiCaprio has turned into an excellent actor.

He always has been (see Gilbert Grape, The Basketball Diaries), we've been over this before. Had he not done Titanic and become a teen-heartthrob for it, people like Zeus never would never have thought otherwise.

[Lox]

Yeah, I don't get the hate. I don't think he did a bad job in Titanic either and I've really enjoyed his performances in things since (like The Aviator).

[Zeus]

You know, Leonardo DiCaprio has turned into an excellent actor.

He always has been (see Gilbert Grape, The Basketball Diaries), we've been over this before. Had he not done Titanic and become a teen-heartthrob for it, people like Zeus never would never have thought otherwise.

Are you forgetting that Titanic is one of my favourite movies of all time and that's why I don't give my movie impressions here for anything released since about 2004?

I've seen nearly every movie he's done, save for about 4 or so. I'm basing my opinion on what I've seen him in and that's about a dozen movies now. I think that's a fair sample size.

[Zeus]

Yeah, I don't get the hate. I don't think he did a bad job in Titanic either and I've really enjoyed his performances in things since (like The Aviator).

I've always said the exact same thing: I don't think he's a horrible actor, it's just that he's a one-note, very limited actor who's greatest skill is choosing his roles as opposed to performing them (there is a MAJOR difference). There have been some other extremely successful actors who have been in some of the better movies of the last 25 years who are exactly the same, mainly Keanu Reeves and Bruce Willis. But the difference is, no one ever tries to pass those guys off as wonderful, Oscar-worthy actors like they do with this guy.

I will admit one thing: the DiFaggio thing does come from the heartthrob image he's been trying to shed for the last 10+ years. But the perceived attacks from me on him have always been essentially "hello, he's a very limited actor, not this 'one of the best of his generation' bullshit that people keep spewing" as opposed to "I think he's one of the worst actors ever". He's certainly a helluva lot better than Asston, that's for sure. He's never actually directly destroyed a film or made it worse than it could be (see Butterfly Effect). But he still is only at Keanu and Willis level, no more. Comparing him to Depp (like some people have done) is like saying a basic hot dog is as good as a prime, top sirloin steak cooked by the top steak chef in the country. Ain't nothin' wrong with the hot dog, they're taste aight and are good now and then but there's no doubt that the steak is far superior.

[SineSwiper]

Toy Story was one, but I saw that. I'd also like to see Despicable Me, Karate Kid, Scott Pilgrim, and Inception.

Dave White gave Karate Kid one star, mostly due to Kid Smith not having the chops to act in a starring role at this point.

Inception, on the other hand, I was trying all weekend to see, but didn't get a babysitter in time. Anyway, I'll see it Wed, when he's going to be staying overnight elsewhere.

[Lox]

I had several friends rave about KK, so that's why it was on my radar.

[Mully]

I'm going to try not to drop any spoilers here, so I'll "spoil-out some stuff"

I did not enjoy Inception...overall. Don't get me wrong: yes it was good looking, and yes the acting was good, but the story was lame. It had been done before: Dreamscape, The Cell, and The Matrix and some other one's I can't remember quite yet (i was thinking all this during the movie). This style of move falls short really fast, the "let me show you a fantastical world and give you one ounce of story and use Special FX." You will be lost about the first hour of the movie. I was warned prior to seeing this: DO NOT GO TO THE BATHROOM! (Thankfully, I didn't! )

Spoiler: show

I brought up Dreamscape and The Cell for a specific reason. They are basically the same movie concept. Dreamscape you can enter in someone's dream and influence their real world self however you choose, including killing them. The Cell inducing someone into your own mind influencing your dreams on them etc etc. Also The Matrix, you can bend some rules like gravity, running fast, kung-fu, but don't think about bullet dodging and flying no one can do that...EXCEPT the Deus Ex Machina, he can bend, break and redefine these rules at his will.

One of the characters in the movie says, "If your going to dream, dream big" which was one of two times a character willfully did something "dream-like" to their advantage (the other one was the paradox scene). I think Nolan tried to explain this but I think didn't do so well...you're in a dream, DREAM BIGGER, don't just pull out a bigger gun frickin' nuke that summamabitch sniper.

The ending of Inception: all at once the entire audience groaned out loud.

[Mully]

This best sums up my problems with Inception and ending with the remark: And so, despite much of the praise from audiences and critics, Inception is thrilling but highly flawed, sloppy, but ambitious enough to command my attention, two, three and likely many more times over.

http://www.dailyfilmdose.com/2010/07/inception.html

[SineSwiper]

Holy shit! Wow. Fucking amazing!

It's like the first third of the movie, they create this sandbox and tell you how it works. In the rest of the movie, down the rabbit hole you fall. And then when it's over, you wake up. The movie itself seems like a dream.

Mully, I think you're crazy. Matrix meets The Italian Job? Really? That's such a shallow portrayal of the movie. Yes, there are some flaws in the reality they create, but you're so engrossed in the idea of this sandbox that you're willing to suspend some disbelief (and this is coming from somebody who really hates doing that) and follow the logic of their puzzle. It reminds me of good anime series, where they explain the rules of how their world functions, in complex and imaginative ways, and see those ideas in action.

The Cell didn't really pull off the tension and story telling at all. It looked more like a SFX experiment than a real story. And it featured J-Lo. The Matrix was a good story, but even with its virtual world, it didn't seem quite as complex until they started getting into the second and third movies.

Oh, and by the way, you're now thinking about The Game. And elephants.

EDIT: If you're going to compare it to a movie, compare it to eXistenZ.

[Lox]

I'm seeing it a week from tomorrow, but I keep hearing more and more good things. 2 friends of mine saw it separately and both told me that it was the best movie they've seen this year.

[Mully]

Holy shit! Wow. Fucking amazing!

Mully, I think you're crazy. Matrix meets The Italian Job? Really? That's such a shallow portrayal of the movie.

EDIT: If you're going to compare it to a movie, compare it to eXistenZ.

I didn't compare it to the Italian Job, which would be a shallow portrayal, but a heist movie, yes.

Dream big? Nothing to me seem that anyone was dreaming. Also, the first time you see Dom, if he's sitting above a bathtub to fall, or "kicked" as they call it, into the water; throughout the van scene they are constantly being jostled and getting dosed with water the entire scene, that should have woken them up! They rolled the freakin' van down a flood-wall through a downpour that should have woken everyone up, not made everyone think they were floating in the dream.

For the record, I wanted to surrender to this dream; I didn’t want to be out in the cold, alone. But I truly have no idea what so many people are raving about. It’s as if someone went into their heads while they were sleeping and planted the idea that Inception is a visionary masterpiece and—hold on … Whoa! I think I get it. The movie is a metaphor for the power of delusional hype—a metaphor for itself.

[SineSwiper]

Dream big? Nothing to me seem that anyone was dreaming. Also, the first time you see Dom, if he's sitting above a bathtub to fall, or "kicked" as they call it, into the water; throughout the van scene they are constantly being jostled and getting dosed with water the entire scene, that should have woken them up! They rolled the freakin' van down a flood-wall through a downpour that should have woken everyone up, not made everyone think they were floating in the dream.

The sedative they were taking was powerful enough to keep you out for a long time, but it still didn't impair inner ear function, so the act of falling could still work as a valid (and the only valid) kick.

I agree that the deal with the dreaming wasn't completely realistic to the actual act of dreaming, but I consider that minor to the whole point of the movie.

[Kupek]

I'm not going to quibble with the mechanics of how the dreams, dreaming within dreams, being in and influencing other people's dreams, and waking from dreams works. There are obvious holes and inconsistencies. But I choose to ignore those and enjoy the story and its execution, which is very good. I think getting stuck on the mechanics is shallow.

The only things that really bothered me was how some scenes or lines were obviously "Listen to my exposition" or "Now we tell the audience the rules." For example, the beginning scene where he says "If you kill him here, he won't die he'll just wake up" was for our benefit. Assuming that all characters have that knowledge, the conversation would go down differently. But, I recognize the writers had a difficult problem of conveying the rules clearly but organically (even if I think the rules have holes and inconsistencies).

I even wonder if Ellen Paige's character was in the screen play from the beginning. We could remove her and still make everything work - but there would no longer be an excuse to explain the rules of the dreams, and there would be no one for DiCaprio's character to explain his past to. Her character is really an audience surrogate.

For similar ideas, check out The Thirteenth Floor if you have not.

[Mully]

I'm not necessarily stuck on the mechanic of Nolan's dreams, however if this movie is about the mechanic of dreams, make the mechanics work. Sometimes I forgot that we were in a dream (minus the gravity and things like that). Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind and The Science of Sleep, he nailed dream worlds for me and being able to enter a dream and just erase (which you probably could steal) without having to upload yourself into their dream and weird things happening like the faces and the dark scenes etc and big hands etc. Gondry probably would have done awesome with Inception.

I agree with you about the "listen to this" also they had to talk really fast and just assume that the audience kept up.

I enjoyed the movie like the action movie it was with it's tick-tock mechanics, heist prep, and anti-gravity fight scenes, but I just felt lost the first hour, then all these questions got built up

Spoiler: show

like if you falling in a dream (the van scene), the nest dream you would be floating(the hotel scene), but wouldn't you be floating in the next nested dream (the snow fortress scene) It would make sense right?

Also, the subconscious of the host dreamer will attack anyone screwing around with reality, like the scene where the "mob" is attacking Ellen Page (Juno) in Leo's dream , in the "van dream" who is attacking them? The dream was hosted by Yusef, the driver of the van, they say it Cillian Murphy's sub conscience, but Yusef (the van driver) is hosting the dream it doesn't make sense to me. (The van scene was hilarious I thought since Yusef had to pee, it rained in the dream; good touch). Then to get deeper into Cillian Murphy sub conscience, then they host into Aurthur (Joseph Gordan Levitt) in the van to get into the hotel, which yet again, they are attacked by Cillian's subconscience. In the hotel, they go to sleep into a dream hosted by Eames (Tom Hardy (who was amazing in Bronson BTW)), to get deeper into Cillian's subconscience and yet again they are attacked by Cillian's troops...again.

Here's an example, which may have holes since I'm talking about computers and not humans: Ok, imagine that there are four computers and you're at one of them, then remote into another computer. Then from that remote connection, remote into another computer. See where I'm going? One computer, into another computer, into another computer...at what point will that forth computer just give out all kinds of information or be influenced to do something else? I know that I'm talking about computers and not humans which can accept influence. This is what I'm mainly stuck on. I guess it is a mechanic.

I didn't like it on first viewing, but I definitely will watch it again for hope that I will get it. Don't give up on me, guys!

(Sorry for the uber-nested parenthesis!)

[Kupek]

But the movies is not about the mechanics. And that seems to be what you're hung up on. At a certain point, I choose to accept the universe that's presented to me in a movie. The less effort I have to expend keep up that illusion, the better constructed it is. I had problems in the first 45 minutes or so, but then I was able to go with it.

[SineSwiper]

Spoiler: show

Also, the subconscious of the host dreamer will attack anyone screwing around with reality, like the scene where the "mob" is attacking Ellen Page (Juno) in Leo's dream , in the "van dream" who is attacking them? The dream was hosted by Yusef, the driver of the van, they say it Cillian Murphy's sub conscience, but Yusef (the van driver) is hosting the dream it doesn't make sense to me.

Cillian's sub conscience was trained to recognize dream intrusion, even if somebody else is the host. After all, what's the point of all of the training if all somebody has to do is pick a different host to defeat the defenses?

I think the fact that we're talking about it so much shows how unique a movie it is.

[Eric]

I liked the entire movie except for the ending(Last 10 seconds). I didn't think that was necessary, although I knew it was coming. I was really hoping they weren't going to do it, but I wasn't at all shocked when they did.

[Flip]

[Julius Seeker]

Yeah, I don't get the hate. I don't think he did a bad job in Titanic either and I've really enjoyed his performances in things since (like The Aviator).

I watched Titanic very recently actually. I thought it was an excellent film; though I am into that romance stuff =P I find Titanic to be very gripping... Particularly the scenes like the one where Rose jumps off the life raft from certain safety, back onto the sinking ship to search for the guy who offered her liberation from her otherwise unhappy existence; or when she goes under to the lower decks and steps into that freezing cold water - as lame as it sounds, I really felt that scene.

Leonardo Dicaprio did a good job there as well as Rose's love interest; I can't even imagine a better suited actor.

As for the Dicaprio teen heart-throb, that started with Romeo and Juliet and The Basketball Diaries; I always thought of him as a little bit of a Ham in those two movies.


Inception seems like a movie I will be seeing very soon according to these comments =P
I haven't been to the movies in over a month, so this should be fun.

[bovine]

Movie was good.

[Zeus]

I liked the entire movie except for the ending(Last 10 seconds). I didn't think that was necessary, although I knew it was coming. I was really hoping they weren't going to do it, but I wasn't at all shocked when they did.

No, it wasn't a surprise what they did. Although I would like to see an explanation about how it's possible

[Oracle]

Good movie, want to see it again. The mechanical 'holes' aren't nearly as bad as people make them out to be.

[Eric]

I liked the entire movie except for the ending(Last 10 seconds). I didn't think that was necessary, although I knew it was coming. I was really hoping they weren't going to do it, but I wasn't at all shocked when they did.

No, it wasn't a surprise what they did. Although I would like to see an explanation about how it's possible

Spoiler: show

Well the entire movie lays out the rules for you as you watch it. One of the rules of a dream is that you don't realize you're dreaming at first, you just arrive in the middle of a situation and go with it, the movie itself starts out the same way, he's on a train, we don't know who this client is or why it's going on, we just go with it. Another one they explained later is that you can turn the dreamer's subconscious against them, Cobb's subconsious is obviously against him in the form of his wife Mal, and explains why those guys were chasing him in Africa. Also at the end his children are wearing the exact same clothes that you always see him dreaming about them wearing, I thought this was the biggest "The entire thing was a dream" hint, the other is that you don't ever actually see his top fall on it's own accord through the movie, he gets interrupted I think every time he uses it? Though I could be mistaken, if it ever falls down, I'd call that a plot hole.

Definitely the kind of movie you want to see twice.

[Imakeholesinu]

Saw it again last week. Agree with all of your spoiler points Eric.

I want to go see something today but I heard Salt sucked.

[SineSwiper]

Saw it again last week. Agree with all of your spoiler points Eric.

I want to go see something today but I heard Salt sucked.

Salt was written by the same guy that did Ultraviolet. Of course it sucks. Why do they give that guy a job?

[Kupek]

Spoiler: show

Eric, you raised interesting points, some of which I thought about near the beginning of the movie.

I first thought that maybe everything was a dream when they were bouncing from major city to major city, getting in fights and being chased by men with guns. It was dream-like in that all of that is fantastical compared to our everyday experiences and it was presented to us without much context.

The problem is that those same things are standard movie tropes. So, if I'm supposed to consider those indications that Cobb is dreaming, then all bets are off. I now can't depend on my prior understanding of how American movies work; I have to question everything, even if it's a way that most movies just work.

Take your point that Cobb's children are wearing the same clothes at the end of the movie. That very thing is often a concession movies make to their audience: characters we see only briefly have similar appearances each time so we can immediately recognize who it is. Further, he's probably been on the run for years, and his kids aren't any older. Yet, we make age allowances to movies all the time because we recognize it's difficult to find child actors who look like another child actor plus five years.

I have a difficult time believing Christopher Nolan intended me to think things through like this. On the other hand, Nolan is the most "meta" of all contemporary, popular Hollywood directors, so maybe he did.

Salt is funny because when I first heard about it, I thought "Really? Russian spies? That's the best we can do?" Then reality happened.

[Zeus]

Spoiler: show

Well the entire movie lays out the rules for you as you watch it. One of the rules of a dream is that you don't realize you're dreaming at first, you just arrive in the middle of a situation and go with it, the movie itself starts out the same way, he's on a train, we don't know who this client is or why it's going on, we just go with it. Another one they explained later is that you can turn the dreamer's subconscious against them, Cobb's subconsious is obviously against him in the form of his wife Mal, and explains why those guys were chasing him in Africa. Also at the end his children are wearing the exact same clothes that you always see him dreaming about them wearing, I thought this was the biggest "The entire thing was a dream" hint, the other is that you don't ever actually see his top fall on it's own accord through the movie, he gets interrupted I think every time he uses it? Though I could be mistaken, if it ever falls down, I'd call that a plot hole.

Definitely the kind of movie you want to see twice.

Yeah, I saw what they were trying to with that but what about this (super spoilers if you haven't seen the flick):

Spoiler: show

In the end when they were trying to plant the inception into the kid, they actually went 4 layers deep. The whole 50 years stuck with is wife layer. That's where he finally got rid of his wife and found Saito. Plus, if you assume that the first layer that he believes is reality is actually a dream, he's now gone at least 5 layers deep, if not more? So 1 day in the "real" layer is like 200+ years in the 5th even though he only seems to spend a few hours at a time there? And he's constantly going in and out of his layers back and forth while dragging pieces of his subconscious (his friends, Saito, the heir) in with him? Sorry, doesn't add up if you assume his "waking" layer is actually a dream as far as I can see.

The fact his kids are wearing the same clothes and move the same way is one of those inconsistencies filmmakers use to ensure there's some doubt as to actually what's going on to leave that question of whether it's reality or not. I can't see how it's anything but reality at the end

I'm wondering if Nolan will become like some other bigger directors now who have pet actors of their own. We saw two relatively big supporting characters from Dark Knight in Inception (Michael Caine and the Scarecrow guy) and a big push from Williams to (finally) play the Riddler in Batman 3 (that would rule; imagine his Riddler being a mixture between the creepy One Hour Photo guy and Williams' basic dramatic + controlled comedic best), maybe Nolan how has enough clout and desire to do that.

[Mully]

Spoiler: show

Well the entire movie lays out the rules for you as you watch it. One of the rules of a dream is that you don't realize you're dreaming at first, you just arrive in the middle of a situation and go with it, the movie itself starts out the same way, he's on a train, we don't know who this client is or why it's going on, we just go with it. Another one they explained later is that you can turn the dreamer's subconscious against them, Cobb's subconsious is obviously against him in the form of his wife Mal, and explains why those guys were chasing him in Africa. Also at the end his children are wearing the exact same clothes that you always see him dreaming about them wearing, I thought this was the biggest "The entire thing was a dream" hint, the other is that you don't ever actually see his top fall on it's own accord through the movie, he gets interrupted I think every time he uses it? Though I could be mistaken, if it ever falls down, I'd call that a plot hole.

Same age too.

[Flip]

Salt is funny because when I first heard about it, I thought "Really? Russian spies? That's the best we can do?" Then reality happened.

Yeah when i first saw what Salt was about, i was floored by the timing. Kudos hollywood, you got lucky with that one.

[Kupek]

Same age too.

See my spoiler-tagged post.

[SineSwiper]

Same age too.

See my spoiler-tagged post.

I have a difficult time believing Christopher Nolan intended me to think things through like this. On the other hand, Nolan is the most "meta" of all contemporary, popular Hollywood directors, so maybe he did.

The guy wrote Memento. And The Prestige. Enough said.

[Kupek]

No, not "enough said." What bothers me is that many people have come up with many theories, and we have little evidence to go on. What I thought after seeing the movie isn't necessarily what Nolan had in mind.

[Mully]

Kupek - What did you mean by "meta?"

[Kupek]

My reasoning about the movie had me considering movies themselves, and I had to consider that I was watching a movie. I was considering the format of what was presented to me, not just the content.

[Zeus]

No, not "enough said." What bothers me is that many people have come up with many theories, and we have little evidence to go on. What I thought after seeing the movie isn't necessarily what Nolan had in mind.

Isn't that a good thing, evidence of a well-written brain-teaser film?

[SineSwiper]

No, not "enough said." What bothers me is that many people have come up with many theories, and we have little evidence to go on. What I thought after seeing the movie isn't necessarily what Nolan had in mind.

Well, you're discounting the evidence by saying it's a common element in movie storytelling. Nolan isn't the type of guy that would make decisions like that without a purposeful direction. And I give out examples of films where he has done this kind of hidden message in the past. So, yes, "enough said".

If anything, incorporating a hidden message is a common element in movie storytelling (or storytelling in games, comics, books, etc.). It's not common enough, but plenty of directors/storytellers do it.

[Kupek]

Zeus, I'm worried about reading into a work what I want to. This is different than reading what the author intended. And that leads me to my reply to Sine, which is that I've heard several plausible theories on what went on (including my own), but there's little evidence to support which is "correct." As for my point that some of the evidence are standard movie tropes, I'm unsure about whether that discounts it or not. Hence my wonder if Nolan intended it to be that meta: the evidence that everything is a dream is that real life doesn't work like the movies.

What my mother thought after seeing it:

Spoiler: show

Cobb is in his own dream, architected by his father. His father did this so his son would be happy. This could explain how Cobb finally sees his children's faces even if he's in a dream: that memory is his father's, not his.

So, I still have many open questions. Hence, "enough said" is premature.

[Zeus]

You guys may be reading far too much into the flick. I thought it was relatively well-done but not overly complex.

[Kupek]

Yes, that's what I'm afraid of. Just because something is possible doesn't mean that's what the author intended.

[Zeus]

Yes, that's what I'm afraid of. Just because something is possible doesn't mean that's what the author intended.

Very true. We can always put our own spin and take on stuff and make them appear far more complex than they actually are.

But at the same time, give credit to Nolan and his bro for writing something neat enough to make us want to think about it, even if it is too much. One thing those guys do is certainly not insult their audience. Remember Memento? It just quickly explained what was happening and then made you follow along the storyline with no hand holding and allowed you to figure out what was going on. Inception was similar. And like Memento, I honestly don't think there's that much left unanswered at the end. I have to take the wifey to see it (ugh), I'll see if there's anything else I missed.

[Kupek]

But at the same time, give credit to Nolan and his bro for writing something neat enough to make us want to think about it, even if it is too much. One thing those guys do is certainly not insult their audience.

Read my first post in this thread.

[Eric]

[SineSwiper]

One of my more useful PBFs. Just replace "Weeaboo" with "Inception", or in my workplace, "Android".