The Shrine

So Veronica Mars got a kickstarter movie, does this kinda open the floodgates to studios basically having the consumer funding projects/movies they want to see get made? Think about it. Want a new 6 episode season of...Firefly? Give us $20,000,000 on Kickstarter! Or something along those lines. Warner Bros was very smart to go ahead and greenlight allowing this to even happen, gives them a great idea of what they get away with.

I loved Veronica Mars but $35 for a digital download of a movie that I'm not going to be seeing for a year or two is not something I'm into. It just feels like charity to me. When I shoot $15 to a Kickstarter fund for a $20 game I feel like I'm not only saving money but I'm supporting something I want to see get made... If I paid $35 for this same game and received little other cool benefit then I'd certainly be inclined to hesitate and look at my options.

A script and a T-shirt just do not interest me, but then again I'm a much bigger gaming nerd then film nerd and the charm of this show has worn off for me over the years, especially since Netflix stopped carrying the show on Instant Watch. If this languished until the last days and it only needed a little more on its last day I'd probably be more gung-ho about possibly giving them $35.

Also the digital copy is redeemable at Flixster, a company I know nothing about. is it DRM riddled? Is it only going to be available to watch a few times?

I dunno... Flixster could be really awesome but for $35 I'm going to pass for now.

I consider it a fluke.

This ain't no fluke. I'd be shocked if Whedon doesn't bring up Firefly...and soon. Give them $5 million and they can make a full season to get it back on the air. Judging from the reception at Comic Con and the fact that there's a shirt almost every day you can buy for Firefly, this is really a no brainer.

What this really does is provide studios and producers free ways of judging interest as well as fund-raise in a non-traditional way. Veronica Mars was pretty popular but it don't reach even close to what other series popularity is and it raise over $2M in a day. That's before a ton of people even found out about it (I didn't know 'til I read the article and I love that show). And if they can raise $5M and only provide digital copies in return? Fuck, that's a fully-funded 20-26 ep season almost. When you know there's 100 people who won't pay but watch if it were on TV (and even buy it when it's released on video) for each person who did, it's a great way to get real, hard data on interest instead of the traditional methods which may be outdated nowadays

Hell, I'd contribute to a Robotech one in a heartbeat......

No one is doing a full season of Firefly. A continuation of the series from the end of the television series with all the main characters back for more would suck and a continuation of the cast from after the movie would be even worse. It would get the money they need in a second but EVERYONE (nearly) in the cast has moved on. It would probably take 2-4 years just to arrange a schedule where the cast could start shooting again (kind of like Arrested Development) and it's a whole other matter getting back on TV. It's more complicated than just having some money. A movie is much more possible (hence Veronica Mars the movie, not a television season) but they already did that and ended things as well as they will ever.

I'd rather see Stargate get resurrected through Kickstarter.

As someone who pledged $100 for the Veronica Mars Movie I'm curious to see how this all shakes out.

I guess its a go? From Wiki:

"Following the cancellation of the series, Thomas wrote a feature film script continuing the series. Warner Bros. opted not to fund the project at the time. In March 2013, Bell and Thomas launched a fundraising campaign to produce the film through Kickstarter and attained the $2 million goal in less than ten hours.[5] Production is scheduled to begin during summer 2013, with a projected release date of early 2014 and has accumulated over $3.5 million via Kickstarter."

Yes, it was a go.

Now it just has to happen lol.

Shrinweck wrote:No one is doing a full season of Firefly. A continuation of the series from the end of the television series with all the main characters back for more would suck and a continuation of the cast from after the movie would be even worse. It would get the money they need in a second but EVERYONE (nearly) in the cast has moved on. It would probably take 2-4 years just to arrange a schedule where the cast could start shooting again (kind of like Arrested Development) and it's a whole other matter getting back on TV. It's more complicated than just having some money. A movie is much more possible (hence Veronica Mars the movie, not a television season) but they already did that and ended things as well as they will ever.

Joss has already given up on the series after the movie. He's moved on, and frankly, so should most of his fans.

Shrinweck wrote:I'd rather see Stargate get resurrected through Kickstarter.

No. Stargate has already had enough series and offshoots. It certainly had a better run than Firefly and Farscape combined.

That doesn't have anything to do with whether there should be more content - Firefly ended when it was still good which was probably a good thing and Farscape ended when it should have. I don't think I even want a Farscape spin-off without Ben Browder and Claudia Black, so that's as over as that gets. Stargate, however, ended in the middle of the story so I'd rather see more of that.

I'd say Party Down would be a prime example of a series that could get Kickstarted instantly (lol also a Rob Thomas television series with a ton of the cast from Veronica Mars) but they already secured a movie deal through conventional means.

Shrinweck wrote:Firefly ended when it was still good which was probably a good thing

Ended when it was good? It ended on a single season. Joss didn't have a chance to tell much of a grand reaching story, which is something he was aiming for with River.

Shrinweck wrote:Farscape ended when it should have.

No, it didn't. It was cancelled after Season 4 when they were planning for a 5 season series. Peacekeeper Wars was Season 5 condensed into 4 hours, and it shows. Yeah, the payoff was great, but you get this impression that it would have been mega awesome if they actually had their last season. Now, we will never know.

I do agree that we really shouldn't try to revive it or anything. I wasn't implying that. I'm just saying that Stargate actually had their chance with many years of episodes. These two got killed off by greedy execs before their time.

I agree with you about both shows - I was just trying to say that they probably shouldn't tack more on now that they're both over. Whereas Stargate ended on a cliff hanger and the best closure we got was from one of the main showrunners talking about the directions he would have had the writers consider going from there. About as blue ballsy as it gets.

Basing the success or non-success of a show (or movie) on its initial run can be very misleading. It's not necessarily an indication of the lasting popularity it and there are many other factors that could have been affecting it. If you took that as the only consideration, you wouldn't be watching Family Guy or Futurama right now (let's keep the argument of whether the quality has decreased or not out of this particular argument, it's moot).

A perfect example are two extremely popular movies: Wizard of Oz and Princess Bride. Both were supreme failures in the theatres. It was actually home video and people discovering the movies many years after the fact (in Oz's case, decades) that lead to their popularity and consideration as some of the fan favourite movies of all time. Starship Troopers is another excellent example. It failed in theatres ($54M box office on $80M budget) but was so goddamned popular on video sales (spent 2 years as a DVD top seller) they not only released special editions of it, they actually funded a CGI cartoon series (Roughnecks) and two direct-to-video sequels. Austin Powers 1 was similar except it was one of those break-evens at the theatre but huge on video (check IMDB for exact numbers)

Like I said before, this is a free way to determine the popularity of something to see if people still wanna see more. It's a win-win. If the money is raised, you're can fund (fully or mostly) a movie/season without giving up anything tangible (digital downloads have a minimal cost to create and distribute). If it fails, you've lost nothing since the IP is dead anyways. Whedon has indicated his love for Firefly and maybe he can gauge interest this way in another 13-ep season or movie if whoever owns the show gives their blessing? Veronica Mars was one of those shows where it was clear the studio (CW as owned by WB) had a bit of a soft spot for it but it never made sense financially (marketing that made it look like a show for 12 year-old girls didn't help). So they let Thomas spend his own time to try and gauge interest, don't cost them jack. I'm sure the costs were minimal for him. What's their reward? A funded extension to a series and a clear indication of actual interest since money was pledged. They will not only be in a position to make money off of the new Vernoica Mars, it's actually being funded (good chunk, at least) by public money.

And with the way people watch shit nowadays (streaming, torrents, PVR, etc) that ain't picked up in Neilson ratings, there are tons of shows who's popularity ain't even properly measured. Look at the Terminator: Sarah Conner Chronicles. Fox kept treating it like a 2-rating average show when there was actual evidence that the number of people watching it was around double that. By comparison, Walking Dead is considered a huge success with a 4-5 rating average.

I fail to see the downfall to this. Tons of shows, particularly sci-fi ones, get shut down before they are really given a chance. If people pledge money to have them come back, you don't think that's a good thing?

No one said it was a bad thing?

You can't expect Kickstarter to resurrect long dead or finished franchises out of the blue. Groundwork has to be done - talent needs to be acquired, planning needs to be done, rough draft scripts need to be written, rights secured, etc. Rob Thomas has been putting work into this and talking about it quite a bit. Whedon on the other hand has let the series end. You just aren't getting a cast and crew back together after years of nothing without a lot of work. Veronica Mars works because it's a core cast of a few people and the supporting cast hasn't gotten super involved with other projects. Hell, the only characters you'd really need back for the movie are Veronica Mars, her father, and her boyfriend and depending on the story you could lose the father and boyfriend pretty quickly.

Interest gauging on Kickstarter is for when you're starting a project up from scratch and want to see if enough people are into it to go from there (this is basically only possible for something super simple - something you can produce yourself like a comic or something else similarly mass produce-able). If absolutely no groundwork has been done for something major like Veronica Mars (Kristen Bell not contacted, rights not secured from the WB, cast and crew asked to tentatively keep their schedule open during a timeframe, etc.) then Rob Thomas would look like a potential crook. If Kickstarter existed all those years ago then yeah something probably would have happened for a bunch of shows that ended before their time. A lot of stars need to align for something like this to happen.

I guess all I'm saying is that Whedon can't just raise twenty million dollars for Firefly and then go "See?" and expect stuff to happen. Probably wouldn't even get accepted through Kickstarter's approval process.

Shrinweck wrote:I guess all I'm saying is that Whedon can't just raise twenty million dollars for Firefly and then go "See?" and expect stuff to happen. Probably wouldn't even get accepted through Kickstarter's approval process.

There is an infinity dollars difference in movie budget between a show about a high school girl moonlighting as a detective, and one about flying through space.

Serenity cost 39 million. And the television series cost 2 million/ep (10 million for the pilot). Jesus no wonder it got canceled.

Nearly every sci-fi series would have no issues getting the cast back together. It's not like I see Jaime Bamber, Tricia Helfer, and Katie Sachoff involved in other shows. Fillion would be the only one with his Castle gig but since he's got no movie moonlighting career to speak of, he's still got half a year to fit it in. No probs in getting other casts in nearly any case IMO.

Of course it requires groundwork. And yes, Thomas had it all laid out beforehand and required almost nothing but permissions and cast committments (not like Bell, Enrico, and the rest are really doin' anything; Flashpoint ain't gonna stop Enrico). But to map out a season, ask the cast if they can do it, get very tentative scheduling and studio time, and to get a rough budget don't exactly take a ton of work. They do this shit all the time for pilots that are mapped out for 13-ep or whatever seasons if they get picked up. These are relatively minimal costs but a decent amount of time. Sure you'd have to have a dedicated person putting the time but I don't think that's an issue with most of these creators.

Whedon might be a different matter altogther. I actually forgot he was working on Marvel's SHIELD TV show. But that still don't mean he can't have someone else look into it while he acts like a producer. Maybe he don't wanna, I can get that. But it would be a HUGE opportunity missed IMO. If you can make a movie like Serenity for $50M nowadays and you can raise $5M in Kickstarter, I'm willing to be any studio goes for that. Not only is it a cheap movie, you already know there's a relatively large, hardcore following.

And I'm willing to be a 13-ep season costs a helluva lot less than that. Special effects aren't really getting more expensive but are getting better (proof: Battlestar Blood and Chrome looked good and it cost $2M for an hour and a half ep: http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Blood_and_Chrome). Raising $5M to do 13-eps at that quality (you'd ALL be happy with that quality) means you'd have nearly 20% of the budget already paid for. Can you say "Lights, Camera, Action!"?

Shrinweck wrote:Serenity cost 39 million. And the television series cost 2 million/ep (10 million for the pilot). Jesus no wonder it got canceled.

The bane of sci-fi/fantasy shows, unfortunately.

"Yeah, sure, you have a huge following, but it costs so damn much. Get out!"

Jack and the Giant Slayer cost $150 million to make and another $100M in advertising. Waterworld was $187M. The new Oz is $200M + $125M in ads.

Zeus wrote:Nearly every sci-fi series would have no issues getting the cast back together. It's not like I see Jaime Bamber, Tricia Helfer, and Katie Sachoff involved in other shows. Fillion would be the only one with his Castle gig but since he's got no movie moonlighting career to speak of, he's still got half a year to fit it in. No probs in getting other casts in nearly any case IMO.

Face it. It's not happening.

Four and a half million viewers an episode just doesn't justify a two million dollar budget, unfortunately. The following was basically all afterwards. I guess that's why we got Serenity in the long run, but even Serenity didn't make its budget back until it hit DVD. Season one of Community typically got like 3-4 million viewers but from what I know of their budget we're talking about tens of thousands an episode.

Whedon apparently wants more Firefly but is just too busy in the immediate future (Yes, the SHIELD TV show, but also the Avengers sequel) - that's three years of work with Marvel according to him. Even optimistically there won't be a Firefly possibility that even gets started for 3-5 years. He can't contract that shit out - Firefly is his baby and he's not the type to hire a nanny.

SineSwiper wrote:

Zeus wrote:Nearly every sci-fi series would have no issues getting the cast back together. It's not like I see Jaime Bamber, Tricia Helfer, and Katie Sachoff involved in other shows. Fillion would be the only one with his Castle gig but since he's got no movie moonlighting career to speak of, he's still got half a year to fit it in. No probs in getting other casts in nearly any case IMO.

Face it. It's not happening.

What, Battlestar or Firefly?

Yes, Whedon is occupied for a few years. I knew all about Avengers 2, it was the SHIELD TV show I forgot about. It's not that hard to work on a couple of projects at once but the TV show will be a big thing for the next year at least. And if he had someone he could trust, I could imagine him farming out at least the details of the pre-production of any future Firefly project while he produces as he works on other stuff. A producer can have a ton of influence. But a lot is going to depend on that TV show and what he's actually doing with it.

I was a little vague with my language out of laziness. Here is a direct Whedon quote "It also remains the case that I'm booked up by Marvel for the next three years... Couple years from now, when Nathan [Fillion]'s no longer [on] Castle and I'm no longer the Tom Hagen of the Marvel Universe and making a giant movie, we might look and see where the market is then. But right now, it's a complete non-Kickstarter for me."

Shrinweck wrote:I was a little vague with my language out of laziness. Here is a direct Whedon quote "It also remains the case that I'm booked up by Marvel for the next three years... Couple years from now, when Nathan [Fillion]'s no longer [on] Castle and I'm no longer the Tom Hagen of the Marvel Universe and making a giant movie, we might look and see where the market is then. But right now, it's a complete non-Kickstarter for me."

Yeah, that's what we were discussing, he doesn't really have the time himself. He would need someone else to do the grunt work and from that quote, he don't want to.

Too bad. But other than his unavailability, it would be a no-brainer IMO

http://www.smgo.tv/learn/how-does-it-work/

Dunno if this is legit just yet, but it opens March 30th, The Show Must Go On, website dedicated to bringing back tv shows that were canceled too soon.

Eric wrote:http://www.smgo.tv/learn/how-does-it-work/

Dunno if this is legit just yet, but it opens March 30th, The Show Must Go On, website dedicated to bringing back tv shows that were canceled too soon.

Wow, you could do an entire two hour movie on Fox alone.

I would love to see a continuation of SGA or SG-1. Both should be possible too.

I am afraid I don't know a lot about SGU.

Skullgirls broke 825k this week to add 5 new characters to the roaster, as well as 2 new stages, and a crap load of voice packs. I am giddy ^_^

Veronica Mars movie was pretty sweet

Shrinweck wrote:Veronica Mars movie was pretty sweet

Glad you enjoyed it, did you contribute to the kickstarter when it was up?

I swear I'd throw my money @ the screen so hard for a Buffy or Angel movie from Joss Whedon. :p

No the cheapest digital download pledge for the movie was $35 which just didn't seem worth it to me. I would have been happy to pay at a pledge level that was around the price of the final product, but $35 is just too deep into donation territory. Also Flixster? Bleh.