Magic 2014

[Don]

This is by far the worst installment of the Duel of the Planeswalkers because it seems to be setup to force you to pay for the DLC for the deck unlocks. You start with either a red deck that cannot burn, or a green deck without strong creatures or decent mana acceleration. Your first opponent is a white deck with mostly weak creatures but a few strong angels. He also has path to exile, fiend hunters, and oblivion rings, so the green deck is pretty much a lost cause assuming you even lived long enough to cast your big creatures (which is hard because you've no mana acceleration in a green deck). The red deck has exactly 1 sweeper (RRR for 3 damage to all creatures) so you actually can't sweep the board and you just get crushed by his creatures, and your red deck should have all the cards unlocked already if you pre order like I did. If not it's probably not even a playable deck. So your only choice is just keep on restarting and hope you get lucky, or unlock cards 1 at a time with encounters.

In the previous two versions, Gideon Jura's deck is more than enough to take on anything until the Revenge section in 2012. Likewise in 2013 Garruk's deck is more than enough for anything except Nicol Bolas on Revenge (you pretty much have to play Jace to beat him). I don't think the green deck in 2014 even has Giant Growth. You'd have to try really hard to come up with weaker decks than the two you started with. I guess once you beat the first opponent it's got to get a lot easier but the egregious push for DLC makes me really not want to continue. It's just not fun when you play a red deck that consistently loses to a bunch of 1/1 creatures because your deck has only one card that can do mass removal.

Also, the default setting have the game pick the blocking order for enemy creatures for you, and here's something that happens basically every time in my playing. You attack with say a 3/3, the white deck blocks with a Fiend Hunter (1/3) that has something powerful exiled (that creature returns when Fiend Hunter dies) and say a 2/2. The game will always pick the 2/2 to kill first and leave the Fiend Hunter alone even though you obviously want to get rid of him as fast possible. I don't expect the game to know what's always more valuable, but seriously if you got something that has a 3/3 or better exiled why would you not kill the Fiend Hunter first?

[SineSwiper]

The two codebases (DotP and MTGO) are so goddamn different it's frustrating. They STILL haven't released MTGO 4, and yet they keep pumping out these DotP games.

MTGO 3 looks like it came from the 1990s, is bloated as hell, suffers from memory leaks all the time, and it's not very friendly to newbies. Yet, the card logic works for 99% of the card interactions, and you can still have a very fun time playing both casual games (like Commander or Momir) and hardcore formats (like Standard and Draft). It's also miles beyond trying to play the game in the traditional card/dice format.

DotP looks like a modern game with modern graphics. It's very appealing to newbies, feels like you're really playing the game, and works for multiple platforms. But, the card logic is broken in many places. If you try things that 90% of the people won't do, the game will break. This is especially evident in the Puzzles. (Many times, I've solved a puzzle in a different fashion than the game thought I could solve it, and the cards just plain didn't work.) The game is also not well equipped to handle phases in a manner that would fit advanced players, and the timer system is a dumb idea when you're faced with resolving 50 different attackers to blockers.

They have a beta for MTGO, but they've had that beta for over a year now. It looks a lot better than MTGO 4, but you can tell it's still based off of the same bloated codebase they've had for years. It needs to be revamped, but you have this hidden suspicion that Mattel/WotC just doesn't give a shit, and isn't giving enough budget to these guys.

[Don]

Well Magic itself is just a bunch of exceptions to the rules so I can understand why it's hard to get it to work since you've your rules and then the cards pretty much overwrite the rules on a case by case scenario. I play DotP since it's a cheap way to get some relatively powerful cards. Sure you're not going to even be able to put 4 lightning bolts in a red deck but you can usually build some kind of burn deck that has some moderate effectiveness.

I finally beat the first guy and it is way easier after you unlock a deck that actually sort of works. I noticed the white deck features a Voice of the Provinces, 4WW for a 3/3 flyer that gets you another 1/1 Human when it comes into play. It also has the Archangel (5WW for 5/5 Flyer with vigiliance), but at least you've some decent small sized creature and you actually have removal to use. I get that they want you buy the deck unlocks but it's one thing to start with a weak deck versus a deck that doesn't even make sense.

[SineSwiper]

Well Magic itself is just a bunch of exceptions to the rules so I can understand why it's hard to get it to work since you've your rules and then the cards pretty much overwrite the rules on a case by case scenario.

I think that's the main problem they face with the two codebases: there's no way to merge them together. MTGO, while it still has difficulties with weird cards (usually janky ones that almost nobody uses), has the rules working pretty well, especially considering what they have to deal with. However, it's taken them years to fix that, and I'm sure a rushed and big corp development team doesn't have the time to make that modularized. Even though that's exactly what they need to be doing to encourage more players into MTGO.

I play DotP since it's a cheap way to get some relatively powerful cards. Sure you're not going to even be able to put 4 lightning bolts in a red deck but you can usually build some kind of burn deck that has some moderate effectiveness.

My problem with DotP is the fact that you basically can't build a deck, besides subtracting some cards (to make sure they don't turn the deck into a 100-card nightmare). Culdcept Saga had way more customizability than that. I was playing that quite a bit before I decided to just get my MTG fix the real way.

Even with all of my bitching about MTGO, it is still much better than DotP, RL MTG, and any other card game out there. You really should just grab the MTGO client, find the bots, and buy some cheap cards (as in 5 cent cards) for a Commander deck:

1. Commander has some of the lowest deck costs (even more so than Pauper).

2. Because of the 100 unique cards rule, if there is a card that is too expensive, just skip it and pick another one of its type.

3. Games are longer, so the kind of cards that would be way too costly to play are great for Commander. They are also way less expensive, because Standard doesn't care about anything above 5-6 mana cost.

4. Cards are shared among decks in MTGO, so once you buy one card, you have it for life to use in any Commander deck.

5. It is way more fun playing with 4 players who are finding ways to do cool combos or summon up huge creatures.

And if you want to really go on the cheap, play Momir Basic. It costs nothing for 60 lands, and $5-7 for the avatar you need. It's basically a game of summoning totally random creatures, that escalates to higher and higher mana costs as you put more and more land down.

[Flip]

For a measly $10 i decided to give this game a try and this weekend and i'm enjoying it. Surprisingly, i realized i put in 7-8 hours, so far with a lot more to do. Since i played a lot of magic way back in the day, this kind of game is perfect for me. The idea of jumping right into MTGO, learning all the new sets, all the new rules, paying real money, and playing against real people with a software i'm not familiar with is too daunting. DotP lets me play, but then i dont have to worry about being overwhelmed.

Some of the encounters are tough, but i'm not having too hard a time yet and i'm through the first 4 or 5 worlds. I'm mainly using the white deck you win against the first boss, but will switch to the red or green deck if i'm hard countered. I just won the sliver deck and tried it out a few times, too.

I think for $10, this is a great game for a casual magic fan or someone like me who just wanted to relearn/relive their magic years. I doubt this will translate into me jumping into MTGO, but i'm glad to have been able to play again. I noticed DotP does have a little multiplayer, which i'll test out after i beat the campaign stuff. I've also noticed some misinterpreting of the rules. It annoys me that when the computer double or triple blocks a creature i dont get to assign how i want the damage dealt. They make that decision and its usually fine, but not always. I'll have to test it out again, but i also noticed that one time i attacked with a 2/2 and the computer blocked with a 2/2, but after he declared a blocker i paused it and shot his creature with a 2 damage instant. His blocker died, but i noticed that my creature didnt do 2 damage to the player...

[Don]

Under config there's an option that lets you select the ability to assign damage when multi-blocked. Otherwise the computer assigns it for you and it's usually not in a way you'd want to.

The game is okay once you beat the first guy. The two decks you started with is just horrendous.

The sealed deck campaign is pretty cool, but it seems like you can't even delete your deck to start over once you played it and you have to shell out $2 to play it again after your first two slots.

[SineSwiper]

For a measly $10 i decided to give this game a try and this weekend and i'm enjoying it. Surprisingly, i realized i put in 7-8 hours, so far with a lot more to do. Since i played a lot of magic way back in the day, this kind of game is perfect for me. The idea of jumping right into MTGO, learning all the new sets, all the new rules, paying real money, and playing against real people with a software i'm not familiar with is too daunting. DotP lets me play, but then i dont have to worry about being overwhelmed.

Fair enough, but I think most people think the gap between DotP and MTGO is this huge commitment. It's not. And once you get the hang of keyboard shortcuts (the F keys), it's pretty easy to get into.

Let's talk about the money, since most people seem to be hung up on that. The MTGO account activation is $10, but that lasts forever and it comes with some starter goodies. (None of this $15/yr stuff for DotP.) From there, there's two recommended routes I'd go for the budget gamer:

* Commander (sometimes called EDH) - Great subgenre of MTG that really captures the spirit of creativity within the game. Miles beyond the "10 card" format of Standard. Again, since the decks are 99 unique cards + 1 Commander, a $20 card isn't going to matter much when you might never draw it. Synergy of the format is a much better factor, so skip the $20 card and buy the $.05 one. There's plenty of budget decks (look for the budget prefix) to try out. Really, the Commander will be the most expensive card, maybe $5.

* Momir Basic - This is really fun and really easy to get into. The Momir avatar you need costs $5-7, and then you just need to build a deck of (free) lands. Maybe 20 mountains, 18 swamps, and equal parts for the rest. Throw the avatar in the deck and play 1v1 with other folks. This is a great way to see all of the different creatures out there. Here's a good primer for the format.

There's also access to the more expensive formats, if you want to go that route. Limited can be fun sometimes, and you get plenty of cards from it. For $15, you get a 40-card deck (that you keep) and a few games to play with it. Frankly, MTGO could be all about the above two formats and I would still be happy with it. EDH is just that good a format.

And unlike DotP, I have these cards for life. I have a bunch of different EDH decks out there, but even if I haven't played MTGO in a while, I can still just pick up and play one of my decks. Does it need updating? Maybe, but 95% of the deck would be just fine. I could spend $1 to update it, or maybe I feel the need to spend $5 on a really good card that would work for a lot of my decks. It's my choice.

Maybe I want to build a whole new deck? Sure. After figuring out the deck list, I'll probably only need to buy about 10 cards. That's what happens when you build up your library over time.

Is MTGO more expensive than DotP? Yeah, after you get into some serious deckbuilding. But, this ain't the RL paper Standard, either. You're not going to be dropping $40, $80, $200 on a deck in this game, not by a longshot. And if you're thinking of buying DotP DLC, you might as well just drop that concept and try out MTGO.

It annoys me that when the computer double or triple blocks a creature i dont get to assign how i want the damage dealt. They make that decision and its usually fine, but not always.

You can change that in the settings to allow you to assign damage. I always do.

I'll have to test it out again, but i also noticed that one time i attacked with a 2/2 and the computer blocked with a 2/2, but after he declared a blocker i paused it and shot his creature with a 2 damage instant. His blocker died, but i noticed that my creature didnt do 2 damage to the player...

Got fooled by that the very first time playing DotP as well. I don't know if it's a rule change in the past several years or what, but when blockers are assigned, that's it. They can't get reassigned to the player after that phase. If you kill off a blocker, it doesn't transfer over to the player. This is also a cosmetic bug in the display of that, because DotP will move the pointer to the player, even though the damage is wasted.

Other rule changes in the last ten years:

* No more mana burn
* "Remove from the game" is called "exile" and almost nothing can touch that zone
* Damage isn't on the stack; it happens all at once after the combat phase
* Instant speed effects on the stack always resolve in last->first order (the "counterspell" rule)
* Most creature types have been unified into about 100 or so types
* All counter modifiers (not counterspells) are either +1/+1 or -1/-1. None of that +2/-1 stuff. They also cancel each other out.
* New stable cards like equipment and Planeswalkers (which they don't even show in DotP)

[SineSwiper]

Hell, if any of you wants to try out MTGO, I can give you a bunch of dupe cards I have.

[Don]

As soon as the blocker is declared, the attacking creature is considered blocked even if the blocker is somehow removed. That's always been how it works. I'm not sure how it works if the attacking creature has Trample. The act of declaring attacker/blockers cannot be responded to. It's like sacrifice where the action immediately resolved, so for example you can't Murder something as it is declared as a blocker, nor can you tap a creature as it gets declared as an attacker.

[Flip]

The sealed deck campaign is pretty cool, but it seems like you can't even delete your deck to start over once you played it and you have to shell out $2 to play it again after your first two slots.

I was playing with this and you can change your deck, to whatever you want. I first built my first slot to be tri colored, won the first encounter, but decided to completely change the deck in the second encounter and you can. Theres a button or option someplace that says 'reset deck' which just puts all your cards back in the pool and you can build again.

[Don]

The sealed deck campaign is pretty cool, but it seems like you can't even delete your deck to start over once you played it and you have to shell out $2 to play it again after your first two slots.

I was playing with this and you can change your deck, to whatever you want. I first built my first slot to be tri colored, won the first encounter, but decided to completely change the deck in the second encounter and you can. Theres a button or option someplace that says 'reset deck' which just puts all your cards back in the pool and you can build again.

Yes but you can't get a new pool of cards without purchasing a new slot after you run out of your first two. At least, I don't see any option to, and it'd seem silly anyway to be selling the extra slots at $2 each if you could just get a new pool of cards.

[SineSwiper]

As soon as the blocker is declared, the attacking creature is considered blocked even if the blocker is somehow removed. That's always been how it works. I'm not sure how it works if the attacking creature has Trample.

If the attacker has Trample, then the attacker is considered to be doing 0 damage to the (non-existent) blocker and the rest of the damage to the player.

The act of declaring attacker/blockers cannot be responded to.

Depends on what you mean by "responded to". There are five steps in the Combat Phase:

Beginning of Combat Step
Declare Attackers Step
Declare Blockers Step
Combat Damage Step
End of Combat Step

No, declaring attackers/blockers isn't applied on the stack, and you can't respond to them individually. However, you can respond to things prior to the Attackers Step (basically "Beginning of Combat Step"), the Blockers Step (in-between Attackers/Blockers), and before/after damage. In a nutshell, when the Attackers/Blockers Step is in progress, the whole game stops and that's all you can do, but you can do anything Instant you want in-between.

It's like sacrifice where the action immediately resolved, so for example you can't Murder something as it is declared as a blocker, nor can you tap a creature as it gets declared as an attacker.

The tap example, no, because you need to tap for both an ability and attacking. As far as the sacrifice, yes, you can. For example:

Opponent attacks with 2/2 and 4/4
You block 2/2 with a 2/1
Before the damage step, you cast Launch Party, sacking your 2/1 and targeting the 4/4.
Spell resolves and both the 4/4 and 2/1 are put into the respective graveyards
Opponent's 2/2 does no damage, but still lives (because the 2/1 didn't survive the Combat Damage Step)

Also, sacrificing and tapping are both considered "costs" to spells/abilities that are done prior to putting it on the stack. (For example, if the card says to sack one of your creatures and it gets countered, you still already had to sack the creature, even if it fizzled.)

[Flip]

The sealed deck campaign is pretty cool, but it seems like you can't even delete your deck to start over once you played it and you have to shell out $2 to play it again after your first two slots.

I was playing with this and you can change your deck, to whatever you want. I first built my first slot to be tri colored, won the first encounter, but decided to completely change the deck in the second encounter and you can. Theres a button or option someplace that says 'reset deck' which just puts all your cards back in the pool and you can build again.

Yes but you can't get a new pool of cards without purchasing a new slot after you run out of your first two. At least, I don't see any option to, and it'd seem silly anyway to be selling the extra slots at $2 each if you could just get a new pool of cards.

Oh i see what you mean. Yeah, i guess thats a bummer but i figured for $10... what can you expect.

I feel as if, way back in the revised and 4th edition days, that after blockers were declared, if you nuked one of them then your opponent would take your creatures damage. I mean, how can a creature be considered blocked, yet take and deal no damage? Its a conundrum because if the creature you just instant'ed doesnt deal your creature damage, then how could it absorb your creatures attack while dead? Thats the whole point of counters, instants, and interrupts... to stop a card from doing from what your opponent declared it would do.

I'll pay more attention next time because i'm pretty sure trample messes up sometimes, too. I know i've been in situations where i think, 2 more turns and this guy is dead, only to realize he somehow has 1 life left after two turns, but i'm not sure how he got that / what i calculated wrong / if the game messed up. I wish there was a replay button or a back button.

Playing against the computer there should be a back button. I've accidentally mis-clicked and it really pisses me off.

There should be a sandbox mode since you dont really own these cards. This entire game is just the latest core set, right? So why not open up the whole set and let us fuck around. I'd feel more confident about moving to MTGO if i at least had a solid grasp on the latest core set. In regards to MTGO, i'll probably wait until the new interface to come out and then might play around with it.

[SineSwiper]

I feel as if, way back in the revised and 4th edition days, that after blockers were declared, if you nuked one of them then your opponent would take your creatures damage. I mean, how can a creature be considered blocked, yet take and deal no damage? Its a conundrum because if the creature you just instant'ed doesnt deal your creature damage, then how could it absorb your creatures attack while dead? Thats the whole point of counters, instants, and interrupts... to stop a card from doing from what your opponent declared it would do.

It might have been a rule change when they changed the whole "damage on the stack" deal. It used to be that the combat damage step put all of the damage on the stack, and then you could mess with that to do things before or after that damage. Nowadays, all combat damage happens at the same time. The priority damage of First/Double Strike happens first (and then normal damage), but those two "phases" complete in one damage block. (It's almost like a second Combat Damage step.)

As far as the realism, you could think of an attacker being occupied by a blocker, but then the blocker gets killed prior to any battle between them. However, the attacker was occupied enough to not be able to deal damage to the player and wastes his opportunity.

I wish there was a replay button or a back button.

Replay exists in MTGO.

Playing against the computer there should be a back button. I've accidentally mis-clicked and it really pisses me off.

It happens in MTGO, but it's mostly because of rushing with the F keys. (Like hitting F8 to pass priority throughout the entire turn, only to realize that you should have been more patient, since he casts some instant on your board.) You get the hang of it, though, and it becomes second nature.

However, the timer system on DotP pisses me off even more. Some turns are more complex than that, and I shouldn't have to "stop the clock" each time. In MTGO, there is no individual phase clock. There's a game clock, but as long as you're not playing in a tourney or playing an extra long EDH game, it's not an issue. Even worse, as I pointed out before, declaring blockers starts a timer in DotP that you can't stop. Sometimes you can't even try to survive a 20 creature attack, because the timer runs out.

There should be a sandbox mode since you dont really own these cards. This entire game is just the latest core set, right? So why not open up the whole set and let us fuck around. I'd feel more confident about moving to MTGO if i at least had a solid grasp on the latest core set. In regards to MTGO, i'll probably wait until the new interface to come out and then might play around with it.

Well, the new interface is more or less out there. I checked and you now have the option to download the new version as a "Wide Beta", so it looks like they are going to release it soon. (Finally.)

Yeah, I hate that it's still based on the same codebase, but the graphics are improved, and the deck builder is a lot nicer. I tried it several months ago (Closed Beta), and it was fairly polished, but they still had some issues with EDH that I didn't like. I'm hoping that they fixed all of that.

Also, if you want a solid grasp on the latest core set, just look them up online. It's not even out yet, anyway. MagicCards.info is the ultimate resource for existing sets. It's like the Google of MTG, and the search interface is amazing. I've used it many, many times when I'm trying to find groups of cards, like all of the Slivers or equipment that gives unblockable or lands that provide black mana and does stuff to creatures.

Regardless, you don't need to understand the latest set to play some of the above formats. That's just the tip of the iceberg for everything except Standard and Limited (Draft/Sealed). The best way to explore all of the creatures and keywords of MTG would be to play several games of Momir Basic, or just hang out in the New Players room and pay some games there.

And trust me, DotP is a seriously bad trainer of what is real MTG. Most of the decks are janky casual decks that would get reamed by any decent deck on MTG/O. MTGO has some of the best players in the world, but it also has plenty of casual players. It all depends on the format, and which area you're hanging out in.

I'm fine with playing a few rounds with you guys on MTGO. I can give you the bot names, and some extra cards. Need to try out the new client and some of the new cards, anyway. Also, I found this article with some useful tips.

[Flip]

Ugh, yeah the way damage/abilities stack now is something i need to get used to. Maybe me and my friends in the card shop were playing it all wrong, but this scenario happened last night.

My CPU opponent used a creature ability of 4 mana (two black 2 colorless, i think) to force me to discard a card. I stopped the timer and then exiled that creature with an instant. Now, the way i was taught, that 4 mana would be wasted and the creature would die and i would not discard a card. My opponent would need to figure out what to do with that 4 mana or it would burn him at the end of his turn (i see you mentioned there is no mana burn anymore). However, the game still forced me to discard a card after the creature got put in the exile pile.

One of the best reasons to use instants/interrupts was to actually interrupt an ability, so what the fuck. I guess they dont call anything interupts anymore and they are all instants, but even still, the basic principle is supposed to be the same. I'm instantly killing your creature before it makes me discard a card. Why do creature abilities have priority over an instant, the fastest spell you can use? "I'm going to make you discard a card." "No, i instantly kill it." "Well, discard a card anyway." just doesnt make sense.

[Don]

What I mean by sacrifice cannot be responded to is say I have an ability sacrifice a creature, target creature gets +X/+X, you can't murder whatever I'm sacrificing to prevent me from getting that bonus. Now you can murder the recipient but you cannot prevent the payment part via sacrifice by killing the creature first.

[Don]

One of the best reasons to use instants/interrupts was to actually interrupt an ability, so what the fuck. I guess they dont call anything interupts anymore and they are all instants, but even still, the basic principle is supposed to be the same. I'm instantly killing your creature before it makes me discard a card. Why do creature abilities have priority over an instant, the fastest spell you can use? "I'm going to make you discard a card." "No, i instantly kill it." "Well, discard a card anyway." just doesnt make sense.

Interrupts were pretty much only Counterspells for all practical purposes. Instants never stopped each other from happening, though sometimes you can prevent some instant from resolving by making the target invalid. For example you cast Giant Growth on a creature, and I cast lightning bolt. Lightning bolt gets resolved first, so the creature dies. The Giant Growth comes next, and since the creature is dead, it is no longer targetting a valid creature and it fails. In this case, the creature is targetting the player, so the fact that the creature dies/exiled doesn't stop it from resolving unless you, the player, somehow become an invalid target. Now if you have a spell like 'player gains hexproof' then it will work as now the creature targetting you is doing something illegal (cannot target a hexproof player) so the ability will fail.

[Don]

I'm not a big fan of deck buliding because it's kind of like Starcraft where you just read up on a build order and do the same thing. I mean it's not like the same deck played by a guy who is #1 in the world is somehow less effective when used by you. Usually the top decks are just overwhelmingly stronger and the hard part is getting the cards or the concept.

I finished the game and it turns out the first guy you fight is probably the strongest guy in the whole game besides the final boss. If you add a few green cards from the same block it's a tournament competitive deck but even without any mana acceleration it's still very strong. The other deck in contention for the top is Jace Beleren's and everything else is way weaker than they are. The rest of the decks can be separated into the 'interesting' category, like the landfall themed one, or just plain suck like the two you started with.

Ramaz on Revenge is basically a Yugioh battle. It took me a while to figure out that he draws the same cards every game. He can even recover when you've Avacyn, Angel of Hope on the board in a 2on1. You pretty much have to build a deck in a way to trade cards 1on1 and rely on the fact that you've two players so you should be able to outlast him or at least deck him out (he was down to 20 cards when I beat him and it's probably like 5 turns before he ran out of cards since he usually draws 4 cards a turn).

[Flip]

I beat it last night, too, but didnt try him on revenge. He was tough enough the first time through when he gets random cards and he beat me twice before i eventually pulled through (using the white weenie and over whelming him). I guess it makes sense that on Revenge they would give him a set deck just to make it super hard. Some of those set deck encounters you fight against on your way to a boss fight are friggin hard. A few of them will beat you in 5 or 6 turns unless you have the right counters. Those fights seem cheap because i'll just restart the game if i dont get the right starting hand i need to win.

For example, the deck that relied on Biovisionary... what total cheapness that is. You lose in 6 turns every game since the CPU will always have the same hand. There are only a few of your random decks that can beat it and you also need a pretty elite starting hand to even consider winning. So, you end up resetting the game 5 times until you do, which takes out some of the fun.

The white deck was always the best for me with the human creatures and the angels. It has creatures with synergy (small and large), some lockdown spells to shutdown permanents, and a few creature killing instants. Its versatile, fast, and late game the flying angels could win it for you. I'd make more changes to it if i could, but as is it isnt bad.

[Don]

I beat it last night, too, but didnt try him on revenge. He was tough enough the first time through when he gets random cards and he beat me twice before i eventually pulled through (using the white weenie and over whelming him). I guess it makes sense that on Revenge they would give him a set deck just to make it super hard. Some of those set deck encounters you fight against on your way to a boss fight are friggin hard. A few of them will beat you in 5 or 6 turns unless you have the right counters. Those fights seem cheap because i'll just restart the game if i dont get the right starting hand i need to win.

For example, the deck that relied on Biovisionary... what total cheapness that is. You lose in 6 turns every game since the CPU will always have the same hand. There are only a few of your random decks that can beat it and you also need a pretty elite starting hand to even consider winning. So, you end up resetting the game 5 times until you do, which takes out some of the fun.

The white deck was always the best for me with the human creatures and the angels. It has creatures with synergy (small and large), some lockdown spells to shutdown permanents, and a few creature killing instants. Its versatile, fast, and late game the flying angels could win it for you. I'd make more changes to it if i could, but as is it isnt bad.

Ramaz's deck is not random. For example he always has Explorataion. He will always cast Harmonize on turn 3 (unless you do something to make him say shuffle his deck or mill it). The only randomness is when he casts Desperate Ravings (draw 2 cards, discard one at random). The scripted encounters are gimmicky but they're supposed to be like that. If you don't get rid of the Biovisionary on the turn it's cast it's pretty much over because he'll always clone it and then cast a followed footsteps the turn after and if you can get rid of those cards you obviously should've just gotten rid of the first Biovisionary.

The white deck usually won't even need to bring in any of its angels. Between the 4 Champion of Parishes and the whole mess of creature generators you can beat someone down by turn 5, and even if they're able to get rid of your Champion of Parish, they're only W to cast and you got 4 of them, and you have quite a few bombs to finish the game off (Baneslayer, Avacyn, the 6W that gets you a 4/4 angel for each untapped creature you have, Increasing Devotion, and even Angelic Overseer is plenty hard to counter).

[Flip]

Ramaz's deck is not random.

Ok then maybe i did make him shuffle somehow. All i know is that he straight up pounded me the first few games (in similar ways, yes), but the third game he was a lot slower in gaining steam, for some reason, and didnt have some cards i remembered him playing in the first couple matches. In the other Planeswalker battles their decks were random, to some extent i believe, as opposed to the encounters along the way to them which were completely stacked decks.

[Don]

Ramaz's deck is not random.

Ok then maybe i did make him shuffle somehow. All i know is that he straight up pounded me the first few games (in similar ways, yes), but the third game he was a lot slower in gaining steam, for some reason, and didnt have some cards i remembered him playing in the first couple matches. In the other Planeswalker battles their decks were random, to some extent i believe, as opposed to the encounters along the way to them which were completely stacked decks.

The guys with decks plays like real magic with the exception of Ramaz. I mean think about it, you have two players on your side versus one. It takes a lot more than a good deck to even have a chance at playing 1on2.

[SineSwiper]

My CPU opponent used a creature ability of 4 mana (two black 2 colorless, i think) to force me to discard a card. I stopped the timer and then exiled that creature with an instant. Now, the way i was taught, that 4 mana would be wasted and the creature would die and i would not discard a card. My opponent would need to figure out what to do with that 4 mana or it would burn him at the end of his turn (i see you mentioned there is no mana burn anymore). However, the game still forced me to discard a card after the creature got put in the exile pile.

Yep. An ability on the stack is still on the stack, even if that creature is exiled. Now, if the ability has some sort of target that no longer exists, it'll fizzle. But, barring some sort of counter like Voidslime, the ability is going to try to work.

The whole thing with 4 dangling mana is also wrong. Mana is a cost of an ability. The mana is used when you use the ability. It doesn't matter if the ability triggered or not. It cost 4 mana to put that ability on the stack, not to make it work. (Now, you CAN use this rule to your advantage: Counter a Fling.)

This is another reason why I like MTGO over even RL MTG: you can't fuck up the rules. The stack is right there, with all of the phases, and it's 99.9% accurate. On the odd chance that it isn't accurate, it's probably a new card, and they'll fix it in the next release. (New card = Standard = $$$... but Epic is probably still broken, because it's a bizarre and barely played keyword.)

One of the best reasons to use instants/interrupts was to actually interrupt an ability, so what the fuck. I guess they dont call anything interupts anymore and they are all instants, but even still, the basic principle is supposed to be the same. I'm instantly killing your creature before it makes me discard a card. Why do creature abilities have priority over an instant, the fastest spell you can use? "I'm going to make you discard a card." "No, i instantly kill it." "Well, discard a card anyway." just doesnt make sense.

It's a balance issue. Instants give you priority and given that most spells aren't instants, they are hard to counter. After all, the creature is still dead. He can't use it any more, and he can't fight with it.

But, an instant isn't all powerful. Creatures and abilities on the stack are separate elements. There are ways of dealing with both. And with your situation, you can still play it out in your favor, but you have to do it differently: Wait until he doesn't have the mana, and then kill it. Just assume he's going to use it. This is also why most of those creatures have tap abilities, and tap abilities are impacted by summoning sickness. It gives you a chance to kill it on your turn.

Also, be wary that abilities are ALSO instant. If you try to kill something like that, the ability can go on the stack. Due to the LIFO rule (last in, first out), the ability triggers first, and then your spell.

Trust me: counters are annoying enough without adding more power to them.

[Don]

The distinction between instant and interrupt is kind of confusing which is why they got rid of interrupts. For example if you use Blue Elemental Blast to destroy something, they can't use any ability to respond to it that isn't another interrupt because Blue Elemental Blast is an interrupt, but something like Terror can be.

The keyword "Split Second" does the effect Flip is thinking of. An ability with this keyword cannot be responded to, though it's very rare to see this keyword.

[Don]

This is another reason why I like MTGO over even RL MTG: you can't fuck up the rules. The stack is right there, with all of the phases, and it's 99.9% accurate. On the odd chance that it isn't accurate, it's probably a new card, and they'll fix it in the next release. (New card = Standard = $$$... but Epic is probably still broken, because it's a bizarre and barely played keyword.)

I remember arguing with people over rules that I know are correct but you've to bring the rulebook to get them to believe you. The 'continous effects from artifacts do not activate if it's tapped' rule, for example, trips up a lot of people. Heck sometimes I don't even remember have much life I have left, or that I was supposed to be taking damage over some effect on an upkeep. I think there was a high profile case of someone getting disqualified because they forgot or perhaps pretended to forget to account for an effect during an upkeep? And anything that adds counters is a nightmare to keep track of in real life once you have a lot of counters going.

[SineSwiper]

Heck sometimes I don't even remember have much life I have left, or that I was supposed to be taking damage over some effect on an upkeep. I think there was a high profile case of someone getting disqualified because they forgot or perhaps pretended to forget to account for an effect during an upkeep? And anything that adds counters is a nightmare to keep track of in real life once you have a lot of counters going.

To quote my Chaos Corrupts Absolutely deck:

Grip of Chaos: I cannot stress how good this card is. Or how funny. People forget about this card easily, because nobody ever sees this card, and they are so used to targeting always working. Well, now it doesn't. In fact, that Acidic Slime that was aiming for one of your enchantments just got redirected to a random land of his You'll probably get a good 2-3 mistaken hits with this card per game, until they really wise up and look for this card. Even then, they are still going to try to cast some targeted spell/ability several times to try to get RID of this enchantment.

Also, with RL MTG, it's got to be funny watching people deal with a "target permanent" card, having to count the number of permanents they have, and then find out that they need a 94-sided die to roll for all of the targets. Be sure to label all of the permanents with a number