Is the market not ready for new consoles or does Wii U suck?

[Flip]

http://games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged-in ... 53532.html


I'm starting to get the feeling that the new XBox and PS4 might have similar problems with moving product.

[Zeus]

There's no denying the first year of the Wii U was horrible in terms of volume of quality titles. The launch was fine but it's been basically NOTHING since. Now we start with some titles coming but it was damned barren between Xmas and August (Game and Wario and Lego City Undercover were the only decent titles).

I've been saying for a while that there's no real desire by the gaming public for new consoles. The fact that the PS3 is STILL at $250 base price nearly 7 full years after launch is proof. Flat out, it's still selling. People aren't sitting around saying "man, my PS3 games look old and crappy and my system just can't do what I want it to do". The games still look good, you can play online on them...you can do whatever you want. Sure Sony was extremely short-sighted with the RAM on the PS3 (Vita has double the RAM the PS3 does) not allowing for always-on chat but that hasn't seemed to be an issue.

The console manufacturers have to give the public a reason to switch. What is it? Games look better? Sure, but not THAT much, certainly not enough to drop $400+ for. Sine's talked a lot about the law of diminishing returns and we're seeing that now. Heck, I can't even tell if the MGS5 9 minute gameplay video is running on a PS3 or PS4. It could be either. Better online? Sure, they can add stuff like Sharing and some community crap but that ain't no reason to buy a new system. Games? Well, other than a few select titles, they're all coming for the PS3 and Xbox 360 anyways. Heck, with the PS4 you're gonna have to pay to play online now so that's actually a detriment to getting the new system (you guys may think it's just me who don't wanna pay to play online but it's not).

There's no real reason to buy a new system, at least not one they've revealed yet. Sure, you're gonna have your early adopters eat the shit up. First 5 million or so in sales are already spoken for. But what about the rest of us who are waiting for a reason? Nothing. Is it gonna be this "always online game world" stuff they're trying to push now with games like Destiny? Not if you have to pay to play online it's not. And that's before you even start talking about the fact a very large chunk of people don't even want to play online on a regular basis.

It has to be something with the games themselves. Nintendo had a chance to do this with the tablet controller but they fucked it up by not actually releasing a game that did it well aside from New Super Mario Bros Wii U. They have enough games coming now that I may actually consider it. But $ony and Microshaft? I ain't touching those system 'til they give me a reason to. Nowhere do I see a system seller like Halo or Mario, not even close

Speaking of struggling systems, I was able to get a Vita for very cheap and I've hardly touched it. I barely was able to get 6 games for it. Phenomenal piece of hardware but man, it's so irrelevant it's actually kinda sad

[Eric]

No, the Wii U sucks and has no games, there's no reason to buy one. Reading arguments over Wii U sales numbers is like watching two doctors discuss how dead their patient is.

Everyone is holding out for the PS4/Xbone for the most part, and those systems will actually have software support and not have to rely on 1st party support.

Also Sony/Microsoft are going to make profits on those price points initially, unless Microsoft drops price and still requires the kinnect.

Zeus, if you were subscribed to PS Plus you'd have quite the vast PS Vita library atm. ;P

[Don]

It seems to me right now devs aren't putting much effort into making games because most of them suck anyway and if you want to make bad games you might as well make it on the mobile platform and hope someone accidentally clicks the 'spend $100' button. I mean if you look at the stuff on mobile that makes a ton of money it really does make you wonder why even bother try to put out a quality game?

[Eric]

I heard something interesting that the big 3 publishers pretty much own the console space software sales, something like 80% of all sales are among those publishers. EA/Activision/Ubisoft?

[Zeus]

I heard something interesting that the big 3 publishers pretty much own the console space software sales, something like 80% of all sales are among those publishers. EA/Activision/Ubisoft?

You do realize Nintendo is the biggest publisher in the world, yes? But they may not be included along with Sony (another big publisher) because they're console makers.

EA and Activision/Blizzard for sure. Ubisoft has some big titles but if you look at their releases, they don't have too much that moves consistently other than Assassin's Creed and Just Dance (they want Rayman to work but it just doesn't). They are 3rd but I would think definitely 3rd, at least in North America. Europe I don't think Activision has too much of a presence, at least not like Ubisoft and EA. Japan none of them do much at all.

Go to your local EB/Gamestop or Best Buy. I would imagine half the shelf space belongs to 2 or 3 big publishers at least, even more of the sales. I mean, just look at the EA sports titles and other big titles and add in the CoD and Skylanders and that's huge on its own.

[Zeus]

No, the Wii U sucks and has no games, there's no reason to buy one. Reading arguments over Wii U sales numbers is like watching two doctors discuss how dead their patient is.

Everyone is holding out for the PS4/Xbone for the most part, and those systems will actually have software support and not have to rely on 1st party support.

Also Sony/Microsoft are going to make profits on those price points initially, unless Microsoft drops price and still requires the kinnect.

Zeus, if you were subscribed to PS Plus you'd have quite the vast PS Vita library atm. ;P

Yes, Wii U up to this point has been horrible in terms of titles. After this Xmas season they'll be a lot better and you'll finally have a reason to get one. But right now? No chance. Ain't by mistake they've sold nothing, they have nothing to offer.

As I was sayin' before, I don't necessarily think everyone's holding out for the new systems. Yes, the first 5 million of each are already spoken for. But after that will be interesting. Just today I was finally able to get my bud a used 120GB Slim for $150 w/ 3 older games (NFS: Shift, CoD MW2, AC: Brotherhood). And that's a 3-4 year old system now. We've lost out on many before over the last couple of months because people seem to be able to get $200 for a set like that, more if the HDD is bigger. Sad but that's what the used market is right now. Honestly, people just don't see the current gen as "over", the desire isn't there like it was in the past. I may be proven wrong but I just don't see it right now based on the new and used markets and what I see in the resale markets, both in stores and through private sales.

Like I've said before, I've been very close to getting PS+ for a while now. They've actually proven that the freebies and discounts they offer may actually be worth it even with free online play. And I do have about 4 PS+ games for my Vita right now. I just can't play them for a bit :-). But that don't mean I have to like being forced to get it just to play the games I paid full price for online. That may make me hold off for even longer on getting it on principle alone. But I will most likely bend....eventually

[Eric]

I meant among 3rd party publishers, I wasn't including Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft.

Who will have a reason to get one? There's nothing on the Wii U I want, and I'm actually thankful for that fact. I got a Wii for $80, and got the 6 or so games I really really wanted to play on it. The Wii U is only for those that just want to play Nintendo games, there's literally no other reason to own it, and even that's a hard swallow because Nintendo's offerings have sucked or are just rehashes of what we've gotten before(Super Mario 3D World is just an up-scaled Super Mario 3D Land from the 3DS). The mass market certainly isn't going to start buying the Wii U for just Nintendo's offerings, and it's not going to get easier for them when the PS4/Xbone dropping in November/Dec.

The Wii U has nothing, and I hope it dies before it gets something I absolutely have to play, cause I'm finding it hard to justify it's price tag for anything, and given the hardware and how Nintendo is losing money on it, I doubt it will ever be as cheap as the Wii eventually got. The Wii U is the Gamecube all over again, and will probably sell less lifetime then the Gamecube did. I just hope it dies sooner then later so Nintendo makes hardware that can compete with the PS4/Xbone. Hopefully then even if Nintendo does release some decent titles for the Wii U, they'll offer them as digital downloads or HD remakes or whatever on their next system.

[Zeus]

Nintendo's systems have been about Nintendo first since the N64 days. Their stuff comes out then we can get other things. Gamecube may not have been "huge" but it wasn't exactly a failure. And it never sold as poorly as the Wii U. Look at how much some of the Gamecube games are getting nowadays on Ebay and you see why Nintendo will never die. They may remain 3rd due to their incredible stubbornness but they will always be able to maintain a profitable business and have a very loyal following.

Just FYI: Mario 3D World is basically Super Mario 64 Wii U but with 4 players. Made by the Galaxy team so it should play a little more like that.

What are you expecting Nintendo to do with their next system? They're so Japanese they don't care about online gaming. They've already done HD with the Wii U. What do you want them to add to their next system? Your best bet is to wait for price drop on the Wii U and get the stuff for that in a couple of years (or whenever Smash Bros comes out :-) ). Their biggest struggle has been the adjustment to HD (as Miyamoto admitted) so we'll be expecting a more steady stream of titles from them starting this Xmas.

If it were any company other than Nintendo I'd say there was a guaranteed price drop. There's no way they should stay at $350 when the PS4 is $400. But this is Nintendo we're talking about so what you'll likely see is a 128GB or 256GB system replace the 32GB one (which will become the "budget" one) and some bundling for Black Friday and that's it.

Personally, with 2 Mario games, Game and Wario, Nintendoland (got it for $10), Pikmin, Zelda, and Wonderful 101 all out by October and Super Smash Bros and Mario Kart soon enough, I'm considering it. I was hoping for a $250 price point and the lack of a price drop may eventually stop me from getting one. But I am much closer to getting that than the other two. I honestly have ZERO desire to get anything that's been announced for those systems. MGS5 for PS4 may be the catalyst but that's a year away. Launch is pretty much irrelevant to me, there's nothing at all I care about as any title I could possibly want is cross-platform with current-gen anyways.

I am very much in a wait-and-see approach on the new systems, all of them. And I'm telling you, the majority of the market agrees with me

[Eric]

I didn't buy my DS or 3DS specifically for Nintendo-centric titles! Hell I bought the Gamecube for non-Nintendo games: Resident Evil Zero, Resident Evil Remake, Resident Evil 4.

And I completely avoided the Wii because of it. Xeno however was too tastey, and I've been enjoying select JRPGs lately.

Edit: Scratch that, just played The Wonderful 101 Demo, I now have a non-Nintendo game I want for the Wii U.

[Zeus]

I didn't buy my DS or 3DS specifically for Nintendo-centric titles! Hell I bought the Gamecube for non-Nintendo games: Resident Evil Zero, Resident Evil Remake, Resident Evil 4.

And I completely avoided the Wii because of it. Xeno however was too tastey, and I've been enjoying select JRPGs lately.

Edit: Scratch that, just played The Wonderful 101 Demo, I now have a non-Nintendo game I want for the Wii U.

You may not have but the majority of people would. The biggest complaints coming from 3rd parties is that Nintendo systems only sell Nintendo games. It's no secret that they can almost completely support a system on their own and the market for their system is driven by the first- and second-party titles. Been that way since the N64.

Might as well get the rest of the Japan 3 if you already have Xenoblade Chronicles. I know Pandora's Tower is down to $30 new and I think the bare-bones version of Last Story is around that too. Also, check out the resale value of Xenoblade. It's in triple digits even for opened copies....

And I just realized: you paid the same amount for the Wii that I paid for my Vita :-)

FYI: Wonderful 101 is a Nintendo-published game, just like Bayonetta 2. Nintendo commissioned and is paying for both of those.

Eric, don't forget how bad most first years of systems are. PS2 had NOTHING in its first year other than some oddball smaller titles. PS3 was truly nothing for the first year until Uncharted came out in 2007 (and that wasn't that great which is why I called the system an MGS4 adaptor 'til the Xmas of 2008). 360 had Oblivion its first year and the next best 'til Gears 1 came out at the end of that first year was Prey. Heck, even the DS, which will become the best selling system of all time, had a brutal first year.....then Mario Kart DS and New Super Mario Bros came out.

It's odd to get systems that have great first years. Dreamcast and Wii were exceptions to the rule. The lineup for PS4 and Xbox One don't look very promising at all right now either.

[SineSwiper]

Wii U is the Dreamcast of its generation. Actually, worse, because Dreamcast had some cool games. Though, Nintendo has deeper pockets and successful 3DS sales, so they will ride out their failed platform for as long as possible.

[Zeus]

Wii U is the Dreamcast of its generation. Actually, worse, because Dreamcast had some cool games. Though, Nintendo has deeper pockets and successful 3DS sales, so they will ride out their failed platform for as long as possible.

No way. Dreamcast had a constant stream of kick-ass titles from everyone. Wii U has had almost nothing from either first- or third-party developers. It's just had a horrible first year in terms of titles, as bad as the PS2

[Eric]

The PS2 still moved numbers though regardless of it's first bad year, same with the PS3 it's horrific first 2 years, bad press, stupid price point, it's still going to pass the 360 in sales this generation, people know what to expect from Sony systems, 3rd party support from the large 3rd party platforms, and great 1st party. With Nintendo you only get 1st party, and that base that only cares about 1st party is worth about 10-20 million(The casuals that bought the cheap Wii for the gimmick motion games are gone now).

The original point of this thread is to point out why the Wii U isn't selling. You seem to think it's because people don't want Next Gen consoles, I think it's because the Wii U sucks and is a generation behind in processing power, has no games, and will never pull in people outside of the hardcore faithful with the 2 real powerhouse consoles around the corner, regardless of what games it has coming out in the next year.

Like where do you see the Wii U sitting in Lifetime sales? Do you really think it'll pass the Gamecube? Do you really think the PS4/Xbone are going to have the same growing pains establishing a base? Or that the Wii U sales will pick up and/or beat out Sony/Microsoft's when those 2 systems are actually out on the market?

[SineSwiper]

I actually liked the GameCube. It had some neat games worth playing, including the best of Metroid Prime. (Metroid Prime 2 remains to be the standard all over Metroidvania games should strive to achieve.) Sure, the library selection pales in comparison to the PS2, but it had some exclusives that made me want to buy the console.

On the other hand, Wii U has zero exclusive games that I care about. Maybe one or two, but it's certainly not worth buying an entire console over them. Even the Wii had more worthwhile games than that. Even in its first year.

Comparing the Wii U with the PS2, even in its first year, is disingenuous at best. The PS2 is THE most successful console in the history of consoles. You don't have the right to use the two systems in the same sentence, except to point out how opposite they are of each other.

[Zeus]

And this is what I'm sayin'. Back when the PS2 came out, it had an even worst first year in terms of releases than the Wii U did (Wii U had a decent launch at least, PS2 didn't even have that; and Sine, whether you care or not, Mario is the biggest system seller around). So why did it sell? 2 reasons: 1) people were ready for a new console as the Dreamcast had proven there was a significant jump from the PS1/Saturn/N64 days and 2) people wanted a cheap DVD player (it was the cheapest at the time in the year 2000). It sure as shit wasn't because of the games which were atrocious (best launch title? Dead or Alive 2.....unreal).

What I'm sayin' is simple: the difference between the Wii U/PS3/Xbox 360 level of processing power and visuals of games and the new gen isn't enough for people to spend $400-500. There needs to be something else and right now, none of the 3 "next gen" systems are showing anything over what we have now. I'm including the Wii U in the "next gen" because even though it's underpowered, it's still Nintendo's "next gen". What is there? Better online? Are people really complaining that much about the current online? Not that I hear. Sharing? Who fucking cares other than a small portion. Better graphics? Sure, but not that much. Let's see what the public's reaction is to the difference in the Call of Duty games as proof but it isn't that significant. So why should most people switch?

Sine, my comparison is the quality of titles in the first years of the system's life. What I was trying to prove is that A LOT of consoles have horrible titles in their first year and are still successful. My references to both the PS2 and DS, the two most successful systems ever released, and their horrible first-year releases are just proving a point that the issue isn't just quality/quantity of games releases, not this time around. There's more to it than that. And FYI: Metroid Prime was 2 years in. You didn't buy the console for Luigi's Mansion or Mario Sunshine which were the two big titles in the first year.

What I see is this entire "next gen" struggling in the first year. The hardcores will snap them up this Xmas, no doubt. And they will be supported by the third-party companies for sure because the publishers and developers are the ones pushing for the new gen the most. And the Wii U will be third this gen, no doubt. Unless Nintendo starts using that Gamepad properly, it'll languish around Gamecube-level sales for its lifetime. That'll be the distinguishing factor for that system to be the complimentary system for the majority of people. Don't discount the fact that the Xbox and PS3 are still at $250 new 7 and 6 years after release, respectively. That's a clear indication of the market still being satisfied with the current gen.

But what I don't see as of right now is the public going out in droves to purchase the systems because there's no reason for them to...at all. No big launch titles (ie. no Halo, no Uncharted, no Gears....not even Destiny or Titalfall), no hook in the hardware/OS (online is fine now and even the PS3 had the Blu Ray player), all of the big titles will continue on the current gen for this year and likely next, current gen is still visually appealing even if next gen is incrementally better.....there's just no real reason other than personal desire/bias to have the shiny new product. And that only works for a small portion of the population.

[Flip]

The PS2 still moved numbers though regardless of it's first bad year, same with the PS3 it's horrific first 2 years, bad press, stupid price point, it's still going to pass the 360 in sales this generation...

I think it already has, globally:

http://www.vgchartz.com/analysis/platform_totals/

[SineSwiper]

Nah, this is different. This feels different. PS2 might have had a bad first year, but it had a lot of developer backing. You knew that a bunch of great games were going to be made on the system. The only company really backing Wii U is Nintendo. That's not to say that Nintendo always tends to do that (N64, anyone?), but you really can only re-release Legend of Zelda and Mario for so long. People are already tired of the same old IP, in the same fashion that nobody gives a shit about Sonic.

Wii created a schism that separated the console audiences. Instead of trying to heal that schism, they turned it up to 11 with the Wii U. But, instead of the filthy casuals flocking to it, they do what their fickle natures tell them to do: move on to something else. The plan backfired. Now they are left with a console with this goofy touchscreen and no games to show for it.

But thinking that all consoles are going to do bad, even for the first year, is folly. Gamers are in larger numbers than ever before. Somebody has to be a winner, or at least a few groups have to be a winner. What are the gaming platforms?

3DS, Vita, smartphones... These are selling well (especially the 3DS), but portable gaming isn't a replacement for standard gaming.

The previous generation... Even PS1 games sold pretty well after PS2 came out, but guess who controls both consoles? Sony (and the rest of them for their respective platforms) aren't going to let the previous generation hinder their progress. Developers will all be forced to switch over soon enough.

PC... PC gaming is making a larger impact, but there's also a lot of cross-compatibility between PC and consoles, so it's not putting a dent into the console audience, either.

And that leaves us with the Big Three with their new consoles. Gamers have to jump somewhere, or jump to multiple places. But, the answer is never going to be D) None of the above.

[Zeus]

Vita's sales are atrocious. Sony's clumping them with PSP sales to hide them now. You wanna talk about a platform that has NOTHING to offer, it's the Vita. Phenomenal piece of hardware but simply put, no one gives a shit.

I never said they were gonna do bad. They'll easily outsell the Wii U, that's not the question. I mean, we all know the first 5 million of each are already spoken for. That's an OK first year and they'll do that in 3 or 4 months if their production facilities can deliver. What I'm saying is they're gonna take off like gangbusters for a couple of months then have a big drought after the early adopters where they just muddle along for a while. What I'm saying is there really no reason for people to jump, not like there was in the past. I sure as shit ain't considering either this year and I have a ridiculous collection and am very much a hardcore gamer. As are many of my friends, family, and acquaintances in gaming stores.

Moving away from us "hardcores", you will still have the PS3 and Xbox 360 at excellent price points with games that still look and play great. We've never had that before where the previous generation still looked and played great when the new one was coming. There was always that hook over and above the games themselves (NES to SNES = significant jump in sprites, SNES to PS1 = 3D, PS1 to PS2 = MUCH improved graphics and enemy volume and DVD player, PS2 to PS3 = HD and online). Now we literally have nothing, not even a strong launch lineup to get over the nothing else.

This is why I think that the 6 year-old PS3 and 7 year-old 360 will continue to sell pretty well into next year, maybe even matching or surpassing the new consoles after launch. Now, I do concede I could be wrong and people will flock regardless. But the signs just aren't there. We'll see come this time next year whether I'm right or wrong (I'm personally hoping I'm wrong, actually).

And just so there's no confusion over the size of the PC market. I don't care how much you prefer to game on your PC and whether or not it's become your mecha of gaming. From a business perspective, it's a relatively small blip in the overall gaming market (barely over 7% according to this article: http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/YAKms/2 ... owth-rates). Yes it's growing but it's still relatively minimal when compared to the overall market. Is it influential? Sure, it always was and always will be. It's the hardcores who game on PCs and they're the more likely to get into game development. Not to mention where you learn to program and develop. And considering console architecture is very PC-based now it's easy to see the link. I just don't think that the PC market will ever leak into the casual market. That'll always keep it more of a niche-sized market

[M'k'n'zy]

Am I the only one who thinks the console wars are stupid as hell? It's particularly bad this generation. Who gives a damn what features or specs a system has. Does it have games on it that you will enjoy playing. That should be the only question that matters.

Yes I bought a Wii U day one. Yes I understand Nintendo has big problems with the system. But you know what? I don't care, because I am too busy having fun playing New Super Mario Bros U, New Super Luigi U, Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, Nintendoland, Ninja Gaiden 3 Razors Edge, Trine 2 Directors Cut, Ducktales Remastered, Nano Assault Neo, and soon to have fun playing The Wonderful 101, Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze, Super Mario 3D World, Rayman Legends, and a few others I have my eyes on that I will pick up if they use the gamepad in interesting ways (I'm looking at you Watch Dogs!)

I had a PS4 reserved, but I canceled it because honestly none of the games they showed at E3 interested me in the slightest. I have no doubt I will pick one up eventually, for no other reason than to play Kingdom Hearts 3, but that is probally at least a year and a half away. And when I do, I am sure I will find other games that I will have fun playing. And that is all that matters.

If you don't like Nintendo first party IP or the type of games Nintendo delivers on their platforms, fine. I understand that it isn't everybodys cup of tea. I just don't get why people have to rampantly hate on Nintendo and the people who do enjoy those games, just like I don't get people who do the same to Sony or Microsoft and their fans. In the end we are all gamers, with different tastes and different opinions, and nobody is inherently right or wrong. I wish people could just respect that.

Anyway that turned out more ranty than I expected but this is something I have wanted to get off my chest for some time. I just don't get it, and maybe I never will. Honestly? I hope I never do.

[Chris]

ZI'm waiting for games on the wii-u that I want. I'm buying mine probably for wonderful 101 and maybe might wait till SMT X FE because it just wets my boner a little getting my favorite franchises combined.
but seriously though yeah it's the real lack of games at this point. They needed something more than New SMB2. Pikmin woul dhave been a better launch title to sell systems than that was. They just needed something to sell the box and they didn't have that and are finally getting to a place where they have some things that could sell the system better than what they launched with.

[Shrinweck]

Am I the only one who thinks the console wars are stupid as hell? It's particularly bad this generation. Who gives a damn what features or specs a system has. Does it have games on it that you will enjoy playing. That should be the only question that matters.

Yes I bought a Wii U day one. Yes I understand Nintendo has big problems with the system. But you know what? I don't care, because I am too busy having fun playing New Super Mario Bros U, New Super Luigi U, Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, Nintendoland, Ninja Gaiden 3 Razors Edge, Trine 2 Directors Cut, Ducktales Remastered, Nano Assault Neo, and soon to have fun playing The Wonderful 101, Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze, Super Mario 3D World, Rayman Legends, and a few others I have my eyes on that I will pick up if they use the gamepad in interesting ways (I'm looking at you Watch Dogs!)

I had a PS4 reserved, but I canceled it because honestly none of the games they showed at E3 interested me in the slightest. I have no doubt I will pick one up eventually, for no other reason than to play Kingdom Hearts 3, but that is probally at least a year and a half away. And when I do, I am sure I will find other games that I will have fun playing. And that is all that matters.

If you don't like Nintendo first party IP or the type of games Nintendo delivers on their platforms, fine. I understand that it isn't everybodys cup of tea. I just don't get why people have to rampantly hate on Nintendo and the people who do enjoy those games, just like I don't get people who do the same to Sony or Microsoft and their fans. In the end we are all gamers, with different tastes and different opinions, and nobody is inherently right or wrong. I wish people could just respect that.

Anyway that turned out more ranty than I expected but this is something I have wanted to get off my chest for some time. I just don't get it, and maybe I never will. Honestly? I hope I never do.

I basically agree. When I had a working 360 there were only like one or two games a year where I was thankful I owned the system since the game I was playing would never be available for the PC. That's not worth paying hundreds of dollars for. Playstation only has a few games where I'd feel the same way that I see a year, so I don't particularly feel that out of the loop in that regard either. I lived with someone who owned a Wii and I maybe turned it on three times the year I was around it.

So, yeah, I guess I'm a PC for life. Although I do have some love in my heart for the DS.

[Eric]

Kingdom Hearts 3, but that is probally at least a year and a half away.

Longer then that, Squaresoft showed off the game WAY WAY to early, I doubt you see it until 2016. They have a terrible tendancy to do that.

If you don't like Nintendo first party IP or the type of games Nintendo delivers on their platforms, fine. I understand that it isn't everybodys cup of tea. I just don't get why people have to rampantly hate on Nintendo and the people who do enjoy those games.

It's just annoying how people ignore and enable Nintendo to get away with alot of their shitty policies and decisions when they could do so much better. At least in the eyes of us that used to like Nintendo. The SNES was my favorite Nintendo console, I got burned by the N64 which started the Nintendo games only on Nintendo console trend while stubbornly sticking to cartrage @ a higher price point, Gamecube was a disaster, and the Wii was a gimmick that wasn't for me. If you can ignore Nintendo's practices policies, and stubborn refusal to get with the times, and still have fun with their constant rehashes of their franchises, good for you.

[kali o.]

It's just annoying how people ignore and enable Nintendo to get away with alot of their shitty policies and decisions when they could do so much better. At least in the eyes of us that used to like Nintendo. The SNES was my favorite Nintendo console, I got burned by the N64 which started the Nintendo games only on Nintendo console trend while stubbornly sticking to cartrage @ a higher price point, Gamecube was a disaster, and the Wii was a gimmick that wasn't for me. If you can ignore Nintendo's practices policies, and stubborn refusal to get with the times, and still have fun with their constant rehashes of their franchises, good for you.

People (...fanboys) often mistake legitimate criticism for fanboyism and hate.