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Here's an example of why I think DQ7 is just hype/momentum/culture craze/whatever

PostPosted:Thu Mar 08, 2001 3:16 pm
by Don
<div style='font: 12pt Modern; text-align: left; '>Sometime ago, I showed a Japanese friend Terranigma, and the conversation went like:

Me: "See, this is a really cool game, you go around and resurrect this world, and then you get to interact with the people. It's got a surprisingly good story and blah blah blah..."
Friend: "No offense, but going around and helping birds and stuff is dumb. I stopped at chapter 2 and didn't even bother to resurrect the humans (which is when the story actually begins!)."

Fast forward to when DQ7 came out. I saw him playing.

Me: "What the hell are these jigsaw puzzles you're putting in this temple?"
Friend: "You see, you go around collect these things, and put them in this temple, and recreate the world piece by piece. Just like that game you're talking about, Tenchi Souzou (Terranigma's Japanese name)."
Me: "I thought you said this game (DQ7) has good gameplay."
Friend: "It does."
Me: "And Terranigma doesn't?"
Friend: "Look man, that game just blew. It was boring. The only reason that game sold at all was because it had the Enix tag on it. DQ7, on the other hand, it's all about the gameplay and tradition. You Americans can't possibly understand the greatness of the original Dragon Quests"
Me: "Um... okay... and why does the monsters look like they're from a 8 bit game?"
Friend: "Tradition man! You just won't understand unless you played the first Dragon Quest. Monsters are supposed to look like this!"
Me: "I thought there's a reason they have more powerful consoles..."
Friend: "Tradition is more important than graphics."
Me: "And what's up with the dinky sound effects when you use spells?"
Friend: "That's tradition too. They had these sound effects back in the days of DQ1!"
Me: "Don't you think they could've synthesized something better now?"
Friend: "That'd be destroying the tradition."
Me: "And I suppose keeping obselete commands like the ability to go to a menu and select talk to people instead of just using the generic 'talk' button is tradition too?"
Friend: "You silly Americans gamers just don't understand the tradition!"

And I think he is actually pretty representive of your generic Japanese gamer.</div>

PostPosted:Thu Mar 08, 2001 3:49 pm
by Red Eye
<div style='font: 14pt Draconwick, Modern; text-align: left; '>OK... personally I would call the pigheaded and resistant to change.</div>

PostPosted:Thu Mar 08, 2001 4:08 pm
by Mr.Person
<div style='font: 14pt Modern; text-align: left; '>Well.., same thing applies here with the Tomb Raider games. Hype and custom are usually more important than a good product in the games industry, sad fact :(.</div>

PostPosted:Thu Mar 08, 2001 5:57 pm
by Stephen_S
<div style='font: 9pt Arial, Modern; text-align: left; '>The Japanese. Dear God.</div>

PostPosted:Thu Mar 08, 2001 8:08 pm
by WooJin
<div style='font: 11pt Modern; text-align: left; '>DQ's always been about classic RPG goodness...so this doesn't really surprise me.</div>

PostPosted:Thu Mar 08, 2001 8:55 pm
by Eric
<div style='font: 11pt Modern; text-align: left; '>Regardless of how silly that is it still sells millions of copies in Japan, it's still an RPG, and it WILL sway some people from buying a PSX2 if the game doesn't show up on it.</div>

PostPosted:Thu Mar 08, 2001 9:01 pm
by Insane Cultist Edge
<div style='font: 12pt Modern; text-align: left; '>Regardless, Dragon Quest is bigger than Final Fantasy in Japan, and RPG's generall all still have very average sales compared to other genre's over here</div>

PostPosted:Thu Mar 08, 2001 9:48 pm
by Manshoon
<div style='font: 14pt "Times New Roman", Modern; text-align: left; '>Sounds like your friend doesn't understand progress.</div>

FF9 sells close to 1 million here.  DQ7 isn't even going to be ported here...

PostPosted:Thu Mar 08, 2001 10:07 pm
by Don
<div style='font: 12pt Modern; text-align: left; '>I don't think the American market has a particularly strong bias toward the Final Fantasy. Oh to be sure there's always a following on the SNES days but it's not like FF2/3 sold half a million or anything fantastic. FF7 didn't begin on the PSX with a million loyal fans ready to buy anything with a FF name on it like Japan. It started from scratch and sold enough to get into the Greatest Hit status... and so did FF8 (at least I think), and so will FF9.

I care not for the history of DQ, that was back in the days of NES and SNES that matters to no one in the market nowadays. I know that from the PSX generation of games the FF has a lead that Dragon Quest can't even touch. Of course DQ7 sold like 4 million or something. If a FF game only comes out once every 5 years it'd sell that many too. Economically speaking, it's far better to have 3 games that basically have the identical engine each sell 2 million a piece (FF7-9) then having one big game that sells 4 million, and Square understands that, which is why FF is basically being mass-produced these days.</div>

PostPosted:Thu Mar 08, 2001 10:11 pm
by Insane Cultist Edge
<div style='font: 12pt Modern; text-align: left; '>Zelda sells 4 million+ here in 6 weeks.</div>

Zelda's not a RPG...

PostPosted:Thu Mar 08, 2001 10:23 pm
by Don
<div style='font: 12pt Modern; text-align: left; '>Not in the same way as FF9 is a RPG, anyway. You're looking at very different markets here. Americans have no problem embracing the action/RPG hybrid game that is Zelda.</div>

PostPosted:Thu Mar 08, 2001 10:25 pm
by Stephen_S
<div style='font: 9pt Arial, Modern; text-align: left; '>Doesn't take much to get you to spout random Nintendo factoids, does it? "Nice weather, today." "Yeah. Did you know Zelda sells 4 million+ here in 6 weeks?"</div>

PostPosted:Thu Mar 08, 2001 11:01 pm
by Insane Cultist Edge
<div style='font: 12pt Modern; text-align: left; '>Read the argument</div>

PostPosted:Thu Mar 08, 2001 11:03 pm
by Insane Cultist Edge
<div style='font: 12pt Modern; text-align: left; '>It's an Epic-Adventure game, in North America, most people see RPG's as just a branch of that genre, Pokemon is an RPG, yet most people would class Zelda and Final Fantasy as being closer to each other over Pokemon and Final Fantasy which ARE in fact the same genre</div>

PostPosted:Fri Mar 09, 2001 12:33 am
by Stephen_S
<div style='font: 9pt Arial, Modern; text-align: left; '>I did. I see Don talking about RPGs like Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest. I don't hear him talking about Zelda. You just got that out of nowhere.</div>

PostPosted:Fri Mar 09, 2001 12:35 am
by Stephen_S
<div style='font: 9pt Arial, Modern; text-align: left; '>Zelda is not a RPG in the same vein as Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest. That's what Don was talking about, not this "Epic-Adventure" nonsense.</div>

PostPosted:Fri Mar 09, 2001 7:06 am
by S.Cody2
<div style='font: 10pt "Copperplate Gothic", Modern; text-align: left; '>"...Can't possibly understand the greatness..." You know someone is on their last line of defense when they resort to such pretention in a debate.</div>

PostPosted:Fri Mar 09, 2001 9:26 am
by Starfox
<div style='font: 9pt Modern; text-align: left; '>Zelda is an RPG</div>

PostPosted:Fri Mar 09, 2001 10:08 am
by Insane Cultist Edge
<div style='font: 12pt Modern; text-align: left; '>I'm talking about Epic Adventure games, Fantasy RPG's are a branch of that genre</div>

PostPosted:Fri Mar 09, 2001 10:10 am
by Insane Cultist Edge
<div style='font: 12pt Modern; text-align: left; '>I don't know anything about Dragon Quest 7 really, but I do know that Final Fantasy 7 and 8 have better graphics than Final Fantasy II and III, and I though 7 and 8 were two of the most boring games ever made while Final Fantasy II and III were very well done</div>