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I think it's time we move past "Japan is good, US is bad"

PostPosted:Thu Mar 22, 2001 10:52 pm
by Don
<div style='font: 12pt Modern; text-align: left; '>Remember the days people say how the Japanese FF4(2US) is harder, that in FF6(3US) you can get Leo, and how the FF7 Japanese version you can revive Aeris? Well, the truth is that even in Japan you can't get Leo or revive Aeris, and FF4J really isn't that much harder (they took out some items and commands like permanent HP+ stuff and Dark Wave, which arguably make the game easier). And don't get me started on the Japanese VA (seiyuu). I've talked to Histohi Doi, who is considered THE source on seiyuus (last time I checked, his Seiyuu database has hits measured in hundreds of millions), and he tells me that in Japan, voice actors are NOT asked how well they can do role X, role Y, etc. They're asked how well they can do a Megumi Hayashibara role, or Inoue Kikuko, or several of the various big names. One of the people in my Anime club seems to think the evil Anime girl laugh is really cool and indicative of voice acting quality and always tries to replicate it. I'd rather listen to the Mac (I think it's a Mac) synthesized "HA HA HA HA" from Zero Wing movies than listening to some high pitched psycho laugh. I go watch a random Anime and you can immediately group what you heard. There's the generic male hero voice, generic young male hero voice, generic villian voice, Megumi voice, Inoue voice, and similarly very identifiable stereotypes. Would you rather have the American Roll Caskett who sounds like a normal tennager girl or her Japanese version which will undoubtedly be the generic screaming high-pitched girl (there's usually one of those in Anime)? It's true once in a while we get gems like "Die monster! You don't belong in this world!" But even then I'd rather listen to this rather than listening to the Japanese counterpart which has the character type voices down a science. If it's a tomboy character they want Megumi, or someone who can sound like her. If it's your ditzy Goddess type character you want Inoue or someone who sounds like her. My friend was playing a complete random selection of Anime over the break on his DVD, and I can break down about 99% of all characters into one of the few stereotypes. That's just sad.

I think the reason for this might be that something sounds really cool when you don't understand it. If you know what they're saying then you can see where they messed up and whatnot, but if it's all in Japanese you can't tell if it's got the right kind of inflections and whatnot. There's a guy in my Japanese class who likes to make random inflections on common phrases. When we're doing skits which involve something like "Hi Joe, I'm going to watch a movie today." he can make it sound like he's reading Shakespeare, and frankly you've no idea of knowing if someone's just making this stuff up or not if you can't understand it.

This is even more so with RPG. All RPG are better in Japanese because no one knew what the hell was going on, so they assumed the best. For the longest time I've been saying Kid is really different in the Japanese version, and then one day I realized duh, she was just the obligatory trash talking tomboy all RPG needed to have one these days (along with the clueless ditz heroine). I think Mitsuda didn't agree with the cheap characterization, and Kid was his favorite character, so he gave her a theme that's far more appropriate. Certainly if you look at the lyrics of Radical Dreamers: Unstealable Gem that's supposed to be in Kid's perspective, it looks nothing like how she's like in the game, English or Japanese version. I always assumed that since her theme is soft and beautiful she must match that elegance, just like if you listened to Aeris's theme you wouldn't think she's a trash-talking Megumi tomboy, since I don't really know what she's saying.
The MMX5 dialogues that usually go like "XYZ surrender yourself." "Die X!" seems far more impressive when you've no idea what they're saying. I believe people used to thought Grandia's plot was deep when they played it on the import since no one knew what the hell was going on, and of course if you ever played the PSX version, you know it's more like fetch quest 101 and 2 for 1 deals on miracles (which isn't necessarily bad, but deep it is not). Or how about Lunar, the vaunted bastion of Animeness? Do you really want Megumi as your Lemina, generic soft spoken girl as Mia Ausa (well, I guess this didn't change much in the English version), Hisakawa Aya (generic female voice 02) as Jane, Inoue "Founder of the Goddess Voice" Kikuko as Luna and Althena, the_guy_that_sounds_like_Tenchi as Alex, generic villian voice as Ghaleon, and so on? Well, I thought Chisa Yokohama did a reasonably good job as Lucia, but it's not like Lucia has a tough role to act out.

I swear, the entire Japanese voice acting industry can be done with a voice synthesizer, and no one would be able to tell the difference...</div>

Honestly.., I always thought voice acting in games is an unneccessary element.

PostPosted:Thu Mar 22, 2001 11:10 pm
by Mr.Person
<div style='font: 14pt Modern; text-align: left; '>I used to remember playing Wing Commander 2 like a long time ago with my brother, and we couldn't play the voices. So we made up our own voices throughout the game for each of the characters and it sounded really cool, especially our Maniac voice :). Then one day we play it with voices on, and it really blew. Making our voices was something which we found fun and humorous and really added to the game. I think voice acting is overrated in games, sometimes it's best to leave things to the imagination, and I think character voices are one of them.</div>

PostPosted:Thu Mar 22, 2001 11:50 pm
by Manshoon
<div style='font: 14pt "Times New Roman", Modern; text-align: left; '>If done correctly, voice acting can enhance the game atmosphere. Just look at MGS.</div>

But what if you know what they're saying in Japanese and still think the Japanese version is better?

PostPosted:Thu Mar 22, 2001 11:50 pm
by WooJin
<div style='font: 11pt Modern; text-align: left; '>While I do agree with on the fact that the Japanese VA Industry is overhyped(Because it is), you can't really argue with the fact that the quality of the VAs overall is much higher than the ones in the US...I mean, you can actually get formal training in Japan on how to be a voice actor, which is pretty much non-existant in much of the US (I do recall such a program being mentioned in Canada...)

Japanese dialogue is often subject to bad writing, corny lines, and the like, but most of the fans will never pick it up since they have no idea what is being said. However, I still find that on average, the Japanese version would still be better simply because you don't lose any of the original meaning (I do professional translation work for a company, and trust me, in certain formats like manga you're forced to cut corners on the translations) and secondly, something that a lot of people don't understand is that a lot of Japanese is contextual, and it's entirely possible for entire paragraphs to sound completely cheesy and stupid even if it's correctly translated becase it comes out differently in Japanese.

But for Japanese ADV/Renai games, VA is a must. It's hard to get into a without it.</div>

Well...

PostPosted:Fri Mar 23, 2001 12:43 am
by Don
<div style='font: 12pt Modern; text-align: left; '>Chinese is kind of like that too, but I doubt we're really missing that much. To be sure there's some stuff that can never be understood even if translated correctly, usually the cultural related thing stuff. I've been trying my hand at reading manga, and it's fairly understandable since I can read all Kanji and manga doesn't exactly employ the hardest of vocabulary, and compare it to my Chinese version, I don't see anything big that they're missing that I can't do without. Of course, Chinese and Japanese are closer than, say, Japanese to English, but I don't see the Chinese equivalent being impossible to translate to English without losing its meaning, either.</div>

PostPosted:Fri Mar 23, 2001 1:35 am
by ManaMan
<div style='font: 12pt Helvetica, Modern; text-align: left; '>Imagine MGS WITHOUT voice acting.</div>

PostPosted:Fri Mar 23, 2001 3:39 am
by ak404
<div style='font: 10pt Verdana, Arial, Georgia, "Times New Roman", Modern; text-align: left; padding: 0% 0% 0% 1%; '>Yeah, lookit all dem bobbing heads. No, I'll take my GOOD voice acting any day of the week.</div>

PostPosted:Fri Mar 23, 2001 10:36 am
by Manshoon
<div style='font: 14pt "Times New Roman", Modern; text-align: left; '>Damn straight</div>

PostPosted:Fri Mar 23, 2001 2:39 pm
by SineSwiper
<div style='font: 11pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", Modern; text-align: left; '>Anybody have the DVD to "Samurai X" (I mean Kenshin)? We just listen to the English voice acting, and it was bad, but I could say why it was bad.</div>

PostPosted:Sat Mar 24, 2001 2:25 am
by S.Cody2
<div style='font: 10pt "Copperplate Gothic", Modern; text-align: left; '>Man, you're really disgruntled.</div>

Oh yeah.

PostPosted:Sat Mar 24, 2001 2:26 am
by S.Cody2
<div style='font: 10pt "Copperplate Gothic", Modern; text-align: left; '>Snaaaaaaake!!!..

The desperation was very convincing.</div>

PostPosted:Sat Mar 24, 2001 1:06 pm
by ManaMan
<div style='font: 12pt Helvetica, Modern; text-align: left; '>Ok El Master dorko, what is GOOD voice acting?</div>

PostPosted:Sat Mar 24, 2001 3:31 pm
by ManaMan
<div style='font: 12pt Helvetica, Modern; text-align: left; '>American otaku feel rejected by western society and culture and try to fill their cultural gap with Japanese culture... regardless of how idiotic and childish it may seem to the rest of us.</div>

PostPosted:Sat Mar 24, 2001 3:32 pm
by ManaMan
<div style='font: 12pt Helvetica, Modern; text-align: left; '>...and any attempt to westernize Japanese culture brings a dorkish cry of "sellout" from the parent's basements of America.</div>

PostPosted:Sat Mar 24, 2001 3:47 pm
by S.Cody2
<div style='font: 10pt "Copperplate Gothic", Modern; text-align: left; '>Heh heh, well put.</div>

PostPosted:Sat Mar 24, 2001 3:48 pm
by S.Cody2
<div style='font: 10pt "Copperplate Gothic", Modern; text-align: left; '>Shhh, he's agreeing with you.</div>

PostPosted:Sat Mar 24, 2001 5:15 pm
by ManaMan
<div style='font: 12pt Helvetica, Modern; text-align: left; '>Oh, hehe... sorry, I'm stupid</div>

PostPosted:Sun Mar 25, 2001 2:58 am
by Crono
<div style='font: 12pt Arial, Modern; text-align: left; '>Well, the thing is, that Japan takes the voice roles in anime more seriously most of the time. America also has its share of BRILLIANT voice actors, they just didn't get utilized very much in the 1970's through middle 1990's.</div>