The Shrine

So yeah I bought this game on Tuesday. I'm up to the part where you enter the sealed Cavern for the final Dark Crystal.

Anyway let's get down to business how does this game stack up? Well the juicy part of the game I'm looking forward too of course is the end, the bonus dungeons and the ability to switch in and out party members. I haven't gotten there yet so I can't comment on it.

Graphics: the visuals of the game are improved, but keep in mind this is a port of a very old 16 bit game. The sprites are polished and the art on the monsters has been improved, so it's noticable if you play it next to an SNES emulator or whatnot, the portraits are next to the characters as you talk so you get to see the artwork for each of them regularly, and there's also a new little 2D intro before hand, that I'm fairly sure wasn't in the original. Most spells get new special effects, other then that it's the same

Gameplay: The gameplay is faster then the original was, it uses the little active time battle system bar, so you can see who's comin up for their next attack. It's a little buggy though I think, for instance sometimes after I attack, immediately after THAT attack, I can attack again without that character's bar being filled. Also I find if multipule characters bars fill it won't neccisarily pick the person who's bar filled first, it'll randomly choose somebody. When you're in dungeons or towns, your character constantly walks at about 4x the speed of the outdoor world. The encounter rate in the game is fairly high, and on top of that the enemies are actually hard, I remember this game being alot easier but I find myself having difficulty with normal random encounters(they hit freakin hard), as opposed to the EZ mode bosses.

Translation: The translation is gooooooood. All the spells and such have been renamed to Cura, Fira, etc. The dialog is good, well as good as it gets, this is a simple RPG after all, simple characters and whatnot.

Anyway I'll continue playing looking forward to that final dungeon.

Side Note: Kain said it best "Everyone chooses death so easily". He's not fucking kidding, I forgot how many people tried to countinually kill themselves in this game.

I'll be getting the game tomorrow, but I'm going to hold off playing for about a week. Need something to keep me occupied on the plane trip to Florida and back (though with my luck I'll only have the bonus dungeons left for the trip back).

That's good to know, about the gameplay. I don't think the bar not being filled thing is a glitch; I don't see any reason to wait for the bar to fill if the character's action will end up being next anyways. I am very glad to hear that the battle system was fixed from the original game. I also assume the item and menu were fixed too (since they were updated to standard levels in Dawn of Souls). I'll definitely be picking this one up; but my heart will still rest with FF6A which I have waited a decade for =)

Eric wrote:Side Note: Kain said it best "Everyone chooses death so easily". He's not fucking kidding, I forgot how many people tried to countinually kill themselves in this game.

You don't remember that almost every frelling character dies and comes back to join you? I remember loving playing the game when I rented a SNES and play it (or play it with a friend), but I never actually completely finished the game. I played about half of the first part, and played from the last save to the final boss (rented game had that save on it), but not the whole thing.

So, when I actually had an opportunity to play it all the way through, I didn't. Why? Because Cid was still fucking alive! I think it was literally the fourth person that they brought back to life. It cheapened the story to the point that I didn't want to play it any more.

Thank god they are getting better at writing RPG storylines. It's still not at a reasonable level, but it's certainly better than the ones of yesteryear.

I think they should make it a parody, like afte the twins turn into stone you use Soft on them and now they're good as new, and so on.

The whole death and ressurection thing didn't bother me that much. Mainly because I didn't see it as what was enjoyable or necessarily bad about the RPG. The bible, the worlds most popular book has plenty of ressurections =)

The Seeker wrote:The whole death and ressurection thing didn't bother me that much. Mainly because I didn't see it as what was enjoyable or necessarily bad about the RPG. The bible, the worlds most popular book has plenty of ressurections =)

I don't find the bible to be enjoyable reading either. The reason why it's popular doesn't have anything do with whether it's a good story.

Don Wang wrote:I think they should make it a parody, like afte the twins turn into stone you use Soft on them and now they're good as new, and so on.

Funny, though the actual story was almost as bad. (Carry them around as items? Whaaa?)

I always hated the seperation between gameplay and story in RPGs. Why can't my characters, which can kill anything that breathes, just bully the bad guys, instead of these useless plot devices?

SineSwiper wrote:

The Seeker wrote:The whole death and ressurection thing didn't bother me that much. Mainly because I didn't see it as what was enjoyable or necessarily bad about the RPG. The bible, the worlds most popular book has plenty of ressurections =)

I don't find the bible to be enjoyable reading either. The reason why it's popular doesn't have anything do with whether it's a good story.

Really? I love the bible, but I am very much into old myths and legends; the bible has a lot of my favourites (though my favourite is Beowulf).

Though it is true, a lot of people who own the bible belong to a primitive belief system (no offense Ishamael =P)

The Seeker wrote:That's good to know, about the gameplay. I don't think the bar not being filled thing is a glitch; I don't see any reason to wait for the bar to fill if the character's action will end up being next anyways.

That's not the case here. I've had Palom choose and cast a spell while Cecil's bar is full and is to go next only to have Palom's turn pop up again after casting. I don't know if I'd call it a glitch, but it is weird. Doesn't happen much so I'm not complaining.

What I would complain about is the sound effects and the inconsistency of the music quality. SFX are straight-up worse, but the music ranges in quality from worse to better. Also, the battle slowdown is a bit annoying but I'm getting used to it. I'm playing this on a GB Player... have no idea if this makes any difference, but I doubt it.

The far, far, far, superior translation and extras (using Yang, Cid, P&P, Edward later on, the 50-level moon dungeon, beastiary list) more than make up for any technical problems in the version.

Final Fantasy ports have always had worse sound effects for some reason. I can't really speak on them myself, since I havent played FF4A yet.

I can't comment on the difference in sound between headphones and the GBA player, since I don't actually have a GBA player.

SineSwiper wrote:
I always hated the seperation between gameplay and story in RPGs. Why can't my characters, which can kill anything that breathes, just bully the bad guys, instead of these useless plot devices?

That's because most game operates with a plot of a typical shonen fighting manga. Yesterday's boss is tomorrow's cannon fodder. The games are clearly intended to play out in a way that the enemies get progressively more difficult both relatively and definitely absolutely. Your characters are always relatively weak at every point of the game minus some random appearance by some powerful legendary characters. Within these confines there really isn't much you can do.

If you want a game you can bully the bad guys, you'd need something like FFX where it actually make sense you can't possibly lose to Yu Yevon. On the other hand you'd need encounters where you get bullied by the bad guys, and not just the obligatory 'boss comes in and do 9999 damage to everyone and leaves' encounter. Take FFX's case, every battle with Sin, to make sense, would need to be borderlining impossible because plenty of people have passed the trials and whatnot but no one has ever beaten Sin head to head without a final Aeon. Even if he's holding back, all the Sin battles, to make sense in story, would have to be the hardest fights in the game.

I don't think game developers are willing to have these huge swings of difficulty that'd actually make sense. People are quite comfortable with a game starting out easy and getting progressively harder. Sure it sometimes doesn't work out that way with an unexpectedly tough/easy boss here and there, but that's the intention.

I would one day like to see an epic RPG whose plot doesn't end in the main character destroying a God like figure gone bad.

Didn't FFVIII or FFIX end like that?

Eric wrote:Didn't FFVIII or FFIX end like that?

Nope, both of those games still involve the destruction of Godlike characters at the end. I felt that Chrono Trigger's "Lavos" did it best overall, and that Xenopgear's "Deus", which used a very similar formula, also did it quite well.

A note on FF4A, it seems reviewers are loving the game stating that story and gameplay aspects have been quite heavily improved.

The Seeker wrote:I would one day like to see an epic RPG whose plot doesn't end in the main character destroying a God like figure gone bad.

God-like figure? Isn't that like every final boss in any FF game? They sorta have a running theme with that.

The Seeker wrote:

Eric wrote:Didn't FFVIII or FFIX end like that?

Nope, both of those games still involve the destruction of Godlike characters at the end. I felt that Chrono Trigger's "Lavos" did it best overall, and that Xenopgear's "Deus", which used a very similar formula, also did it quite well.

A note on FF4A, it seems reviewers are loving the game stating that story and gameplay aspects have been quite heavily improved.

Considering Some of the Ramifications of Time Travel/Lavos had on that world, I'm surprised you see Lavos as anything but a God.

The 'God' figure in Chrono Trigger was clearly the one they called "The Entity" discussed in the campfire chat before Lucca went back in time to save her mother, not Lavos.

On the other hand, Xenogear's Deus is most definitely a god... I think Deus means god in Latin.

Don Wang wrote:The 'God' figure in Chrono Trigger was clearly the one they called "The Entity" discussed in the campfire chat before Lucca went back in time to save her mother, not Lavos.

On the other hand, Xenogear's Deus is most definitely a god... I think Deus means god in Latin.

Deus does mean God. In Xenogears he is clearly the creator and the source of energy in the world.

I am not sure about the "entity" but certainly Lavos did have an enormous impact on the course of civilization and evolution as a whole. He might have not been "the creator" but that wasn't an important aspect of Chrono Trigger anyways. I just like how Lavos was treated in the game because he was viewed in different ways in different time periods:

-65M He was the Red Star which fell from the sky and destroyed the Reptile Civilization.
-12K he was a God and source of magic. His power was a gift to the people; and in the end he punished and destroyed them.
600 (I think) he was seen as a beast summoned by a wizard
1K Same as the Dark ages
1999 - The Devil, the destroyer, The Apocalypse, Ragnarok.

Future - He was seen as essentially an evil cruel God.

Of course, these are just my interpretations and it has been like 2 years since I played Chrono Trigger.

It's clearly indicated that The Entity, not Lavos, was the one responsible for time travel. Also note that none of the warp gates exist in a way that'd give any benefit to Lavos. In fact the existence of time travel is purely detrimental to Lavos's goal of destroying the planet.

Don Wang wrote:It's clearly indicated that The Entity, not Lavos, was the one responsible for time travel. Also note that none of the warp gates exist in a way that'd give any benefit to Lavos. In fact the existence of time travel is purely detrimental to Lavos's goal of destroying the planet.

I checked the game script, it says the entity is something that wants to relive the past and that it is strongly linked to Lavos. Robo says "The gates might not be linked to Lavos but another entity." It is never explicit as to what he means by that. It doesn't really state that it is a god. Lavos, however, clearly does have very Godlike characteristics; and in the final battle, there are images taken from throughout time. This entity might also have some godlike characterisics. The entity might be the core of Lavos which seems to be an intelligent being.

If the Entity is something other than Lavos, then there are two Godlike figures. The idea of a God is a supernatural and powerful being which influences the world in a way beyond what any natural force can achieve on its own; Lavos definately possesses Godlike characteristics, and the Entity probably does too, according to Ayla's description.

Apparently the secondary characters kinda own now.

I've heard a report of Edward doing more damage than Cecil.

Edward.

Bleh, who the fuck am I kidding. Just over 5 hours in, about to head to Zot. Boost movement is way nifty, as is the bestiairy. Slowdown during battles is kind of annoying but I'm used to it by now.

Alright, so I am finally around to playing Final Fantasy 4 Advance.

Anyways, I might have missed something, but at a part earlier Golbez scolds Kain for failing him once in a battle against Cecil (just before the party went to the Mountain of Ordeals). This makes NO sense whatsoever, the last time Kain met Cecil was at Damcyan and Kain totally kicked Cecil's ass and took the crystal for Golbez. How is this failure? A LOT of plot inconsistencies I'd say =P

I also did not figure out the part where Golbez began to consider Cecil a significant threat? Significant enough that he is somehow spying on him. The only logical conclusion that I could come to was that they are brothers, but Cecil in reality is NOTHING compared to Golbez at this point. Golbez could have just taken Cecil and co. and imprisoned them somewhere after they took Damcyan.

Lastly, they have Cecil's girlfriend Rosa tied up in a chair, all that is there is Golbez and Kain. If they were really TRULY evil....... catch my drift?

Alright, I totally forgot how short this game was, I played for a few more hours, and now I am already at Rubicant. Anyways, I know a lot of people here are huge fans of Kain, but my favourite characters are Yang and Rydia. I forget how Edge is, later on; I remember liking his character, though that may just be because he's a ninja! =P

On gameplay, I did notice that they DID in fact fix a number of complaints I had with the original Final Fantasy II on SNES. Things move a lot more smoothly and less awkwardly than they did before.

All I can say is that I can't wait for Final Fantasy 6 Advance. I wish I had it right now. Hopefully Square will also see the benefits in porting over Chrono Trigger, and Nintendo will release Earthbound. Final Fantasy III, Chrono Trigger, and Earthbound are three RPGs I have always wanted to see on a handheld system.

The Seeker wrote:Though it is true, a lot of people who own the bible belong to a primitive belief system (no offense Ishamael =P)

Dude, no matter how many times you say that it doesn't make you sound any more advanced or intelligent. Just wanted to let you know that.

Lox wrote:

The Seeker wrote:Though it is true, a lot of people who own the bible belong to a primitive belief system (no offense Ishamael =P)

Dude, no matter how many times you say that it doesn't make you sound any more advanced or intelligent. Just wanted to let you know that.

Why did you want to let me know that exactly?

You just have a habit of thinking you're the great intellectual of this forum who needs to speak down to anyone who has a point of view not in agreement with yours. Sometimes it gets on my nerves (just like everyone elses) so I just felt like saying something about it.

That was it. I'm sure that my comment means nothing to you and isn't going to change the way you act, but I felt like saying it regardless.

The rest of the thread may continue now. (Sorry, everyone. Didn't mean to threadjack. )

Lox wrote:You just have a habit of thinking you're the great intellectual of this forum who needs to speak down to anyone who has a point of view not in agreement with yours. .

It's quite interesting to hear that you somehow have mind reading abilities and know my habits of thought from LAST YEAR when I wrote that trivial section of a post.

Lox wrote:Sometimes it gets on my nerves so I just felt like saying something about it.

What if you are wrong about what I was thinking at the time I wrote the post? I mean, I wrote the thing, and even I don't recall thinking of myself as "the great intellectual of this forum who needs to speak down to anyone who has a point of view not in agreement" at that time or any other time. I really do not understand how you came to such a wild conclusion, please enlighten me if you would.

Otherwise, lets just talk about Final Fantasy 4 Advance. That is what I came to this thread to do, this particular year =)

Alright, I forgot how much fun the Underworld portion of the game is. My favourite locations are the towns in the Underworld. Asura also offered an incredible challenge compared to anything else I have fought this far, I barely survived the battle, luckily I remembered the reflect thing after the first couple of rounds.

At the Giant of Babel. The most annoying thing happened to me, I was most of the way through the thing but I dozed off, possibly during battle, and when I woke up I was at the title screen, obviously I must have died. This sort of thing has happened to me before playing RPGs. Anyways, I finished it with relative ease and have exchanged Kain for Yang (since I don't like the jump ability and Yang is just a better attacker, plus he's my second favourite character) for my final party. I wanted to exchange Edge too, but his throw ability is just too good to give up. Now I have a party of completely future royalty. Of course, I am not sure what the best party is, anyone experiment a little on this? I haven't really put much thought into how good Cid, Palom, or Porom might be. Even Edward, but Edward is my least favourite character so I plan to exclude him.

You need to play Edward to get to the bonus dungeon's last boss. ;p LEARN TO LOVE HIM! :p