The Other Worlds Shrine

Your place for discussion about RPGs, gaming, music, movies, anime, computers, sports, and any other stuff we care to talk about... 

  • US Government vs. the People - Net Neutrality

  • Your favorite band sucks, and you have terrible taste in movies.
Your favorite band sucks, and you have terrible taste in movies.
 #170345  by Julius Seeker
 Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:28 pm
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN1E81CX
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Federal Communications Commission voted along party lines on Thursday to repeal landmark 2015 rules aimed at ensuring a free and open internet, setting up a court fight over a move that could recast the digital landscape.

The approval of FCC Chairman Ajit Pai’s proposal marked a victory for internet service providers like AT&T Inc, Comcast Corp and Verizon Communications Inc and hands them power over what content consumers can access.

Democrats, Hollywood and companies like Google parent Alphabet Inc and Facebook Inc had urged Pai, a Republican appointed by U.S. President Donald Trump, to keep the Obama-era rules barring service providers from blocking, slowing access to or charging more for certain content.

The meeting, held amid protests online and in front of the FCC headquarters in Washington, was evacuated before the vote for about 10 minutes due to an unspecified security threat, and resumed after law enforcement with sniffer dogs checked the room.

White House spokeswoman Sarah Sanders told reporters the administration “supports the FCC’s efforts. At the same time, the White House certainly has and always will support a free and fair internet.”

New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman, a Democrat, said in a statement he will lead a multi-state lawsuit to challenge the reversal.

Shares of Alphabet, Apple Inc and Microsoft Corp moved lower after the vote.

Pai has argued that the 2015 rules were heavy handed and stifled competition and innovation among service providers.

“The internet wasn’t broken in 2015. We weren’t living in a digital dystopia,” he said on Thursday.
 #170347  by Shrinweck
 Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:58 am
I'm not overly worried about it. Everything will be mucked up and otherwise delayed by the courts, giving us years for Millennial Republicans to bitch out their representation and changing the majority party in the Congress.
 #170348  by kali o.
 Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:49 pm
Why do some of you support Net Neutrality? I mean, there are pros and cons to this subject, and part of me feels a good portion of the folks "riled" up probably have no fucking clue about the issue (maybe not you guys, but still...).

If you have a google, Netflix and facebook supporting NN....maybe that should tell you something about whose interests and bottmlines are really advocated for in NN...and its not the consumer or start ups / innovation.
 #170350  by Shrinweck
 Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:23 pm
Well my mother works for AT&T so this is a rather big boon for how she works with the company so it's hard for me to be totally against the repeal because it means she'll almost certainly stay employed until she retires...

But if I have to live in a world where the choice is Facebook, Netflix, Google, etc. being happy or Comcast, Verizon, Time Warner, etc. being happy I think I'll go with the former. One at least tries to fool me into them being pro-consumer. ISPs don't even fucking bother. Countries where Internet has become an honest to god utility just seem to have it better than us in terms of Internet speeds (or at least potentially up-and-coming Internet speeds). Honestly it wasn't great before the repeal but I really can't imagine this making it any better. I can't see this as anything other than one step forward (for ISPs, and employees of them like my mother) and like eight steps back for everyone else.
 #170352  by Julius Seeker
 Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:26 pm
Isn’t it obvious why net neutrality is a positive thing?

People are generally for net neutrality because, as a consumer, they don’t want to get fucked in the ass with fragmentation of online access; in countries without net neutrality, they have to put up with SIM card swapping to get a broader access to the internet. From an economic standpoint, it’s toxic to a competitive business environment; it makes the first party telecom companies the regulators of the online traffic - in a marketplace as large as the US, they would be able to determine the fate of hundreds of billions of dollars worth of annual economic activity across millions of companies. Thirdly, it’s anti-democratic since it opens the door to political censorship.

What actual benefits are there to ending net neutrality?
It’s not a smart decision for any nation that values a strong modernized economy.
 #170354  by Julius Seeker
 Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:40 am
kali o. wrote:I'll come back later to provide an actual in depth reply but...
Thirdly, it’s anti-democratic since it opens the door to political censorship.
Uhhh....What?
Yeah. You should read a little more on the subject.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... s-ajit-pai
What is net neutrality? It protects us from corporate power
Matt Stoller
Net neutrality is a rule against censorship and manipulation. The vote to repeal it would do real damage to our democracy.

Net neutrality is a rule against censorship and manipulation. It means that if you are a broadband provider, like AT&T, Verizon or Google Fiber, you cannot discriminate in favor of or against any of your customers. You aren’t allowed to carry the content or data of one website or video provider at one price and the content or data of another website or video provider at a different price. You can’t censor, throttle, or slow the carrying of data for any but technical reasons.

With net neutrality in place, whether you are a newspaper, a blogger discussing sexual assault, a video provider, or someone filming a public official at a town hall, Verizon or AT&T can’t slow or block your ability to put your content online and speak. Without it, they effectively can.

Net neutrality is a type of “common carriage” rule, and it is a bedrock of American democracy. More than a century ago, we had network monopolies like telegraph networks and railroads. Eventually, we regulated them via non-discriminatory principles very similar to net neutrality. In the 20th century, the regulatory framework for trucking, phone networks, airplanes, and electric utilities were also built on the principle of non-discrimination.

Then, as now, the threat was not just commercial, but political. During the 1876 presidential election, which formally ended Reconstruction, the militantly pro-Republican Western Union telegraph monopoly colluded with the Associated Press to throw a close contest to the Republican candidate, Rutherford Hayes, leading Democrats to begin calling the AP the “Hayessociated Press”.

In response, Americans put in place public rules to neutralize the power of these platforms. In the 1930s, for instance, Congress enacted federal legislation to stop AT&T from abusing its monopoly position in telecommunications. This legislative framework worked beautifully.

By the time the mass internet first emerged in the form of dial-up modems, AT&T could not block the use of its phone network to access it. It could not discriminate against you if you wanted to access, say, AOL or Compuserve. It could not choose to censor the websites you sought to visit or divert you to AT&T-approved content. We paid for the use of the network, not for AT&T to edit the public square.

In the mid-2000s, Michael Powell, chosen by George W Bush as FCC chair, eliminated important safeguards against telecom monopoly power, and set the stage for the removal of net neutrality-like common carriage protections in broadband. Competition in broadband died and the US, once the leader in broadband, fell behind the rest of the world.

For the next 12 years, as the fight continued, telecommunications corporations did sometimes censor traffic, but mostly they behaved. The telecom barons knew there would be a political reaction against them. They had to wait until their guy was firmly in power.

And now, he is.

The very same day Trump’s FCC chairman announced he was ending net neutrality protections, Comcast deleted from its website a public promise not to create internet fast lanes. In other words, now that the rules are poised to disappear, large telecommunications have decided to manipulate the flow of information in our society.

One thing this means is that you will get even less local news than now. As Matt DeRienzo, executive director of Local Independent Online News Publishers, wrote: “Big internet and wireless providers will be able to charge individual publishers for levels of speed and access, a scenario in which a handful of big companies with deep pockets could squeeze out” independent news publishers.

For years, Senator Al Franken has been one of the greatest defenders of net neutrality in the Senate. Recently, he took the brave step of proposing that those same basic principles be extended to tech platforms like Google and Facebook, which already have ample power to manipulate flows of information and news. Franken’s approach is the right approach, the one we should all adopt now.

The Trump FCC and the telecom barons think that once the rule has been changed, we will simply forget about it. But they are wrong. If they eliminate net neutrality, it will end up being the downfall of the telecom barons. Americans will soon conclude that the only possible way to address the damage Pai has wrought is to finally and fully break the power of the giants.
Americans have been here before. The power of Standard Oil once seemed unbreakable. But it wasn’t. Neither are today’s telecom barons.
Admittedly, it’s a worst case scenario, but one that should never have the possibility to be allowed to occur at any point in time.