The Other Worlds Shrine

Your place for discussion about RPGs, gaming, music, movies, anime, computers, sports, and any other stuff we care to talk about... 

  • Finally finished Chrono Cross, final impressions inside (yeah, I know, 2 years too late..). Only minor gameplay spoilers

  • Because playing them is not enough, we have to bitch about them daily, too. We had a Gameplay forum, but it got replaced by GameFAQs.
Because playing them is not enough, we have to bitch about them daily, too. We had a Gameplay forum, but it got replaced by GameFAQs.
 #27871  by Zeus
 Fri Apr 05, 2002 2:28 am
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Final impressions summed up in one word: WOW.

I mean, I was a HUGE fan of Chrono Trigger. I thought it was basically perfect, a game that just blew me away for its time and still is nearly unbeatable 7 years later. There have only been 2 other RPGs I've ever played which left me with that impression: Final Fantasy 3 (6j) and Panzer Dragoon Saga. Those three were RPGs that were far superior to what I ever expected them to be, games I consider to be THE standard by which all other RPGs should be judged, the ageless games. Well, we can add Chrono Cross to that list. For the 32/64-bit RPGs, this is what I was expecting - no, hoping for - from the "next generation" of RPGs (remember, I haven't gotten into the newest generation yet). Considering the number of RPGs released for the PSX, I was amazed only the amazing Panzer Saga from Sega was able to meet that expectation (wish). Really, aside from Xenogears, what we had seen on PSX up until CC was released (summer 2000) was SNES-level or worse RPGs with much nicer graphics and some gameplay tweaks, most of which didn't work very well. Mind you, the production quality and graphics were a huge step up (thank you, FF7) but the actual gameplay wasn't any better, often times worse. We had seen a lot of attempts at new gameplay changes, but very few worked well and non really revolutionized the genre.

To me, Chrono Cross (and PDS) take that next step. Every change made to the ATB system not only worked, but I believe should become standard. The addition of a stamima bar was nothing short of genius. Makes the battles MUCH more strategic and realistic at the same time. The incorporation and enhancement of the Xenogears' weak-medium-strong attack options with hit percentages. I liked the system in Xenogears (not the execution) and I like it even more now in CC, especially in conjunction with the stamina bar. Let's not forget the Element system, which is my favourite part. The fact that "items" (items are something different in CC) and magic are basically the same thing and are used in the same way in a battle is a great idea. Not to mention the fact you can only use spells once per battle without a special item. It really adds a lot of strategy to the battles. You can't just sit back and cast the same amazing spell over and over again. Not to mention the fact that you level up gradually throughout the game, gaining hit points after normal battles and not just when you level up to the next experience level. Then there's the field effect, which just adds that minor level of strategy to the battles, and the innate colours of the people and creatures, adding yet another level of strategy. All these gameplay changes really enhance the battles in the game, making them much more interesting than the standard RPG fare which I'm sure everyone's grown tired of. And they all work beautifully. This part was the most impressive and important change to the traditional RPG format that I've ever seen.

Of course, no RPG can possibly be good without an excellent story, and CC is no slouch there. This one is right up there among the best ever. What makes this story extra special is how well it integrated the events of the original Chrono Trigger. I don't want to leave any spoilers for the 2 people here who haven't played it, but if you've played CT, you'll love how the events of that affected the storyline of the sequel. You can very much enjoy the game without ever having played CT, but you appreciated so much more IMO if you see it as a sequel, a continuation of the original storyline. Particularly in the second half of the game, just as you start to get into the deeper part of the story, and you realize just how much the events of the first affected what's going on now. Just amazing, far better than what I ever expected.

All superb RPGs have excellent music and CC might just have the best overall ST ever in an RPG. Hell, it might have the best ever if it weren't for Symphony. The music never ceased to amaze me how good it was or how well it seemed to fit the areas I was in or how in sync it was with the events that were happening. Just amazing, best Square ST ever, and that's saying a lot considering the amazing work they've done over the years.

Graphics were excellent as well. They might not have been the most impressive aesthetically, but the're probably the best use of graphics I've ever seen. I really like the "painted" feel of the graphics as well as alll the poses/actions the characters were doing throughout the game (like Serge getting out of bed in the beginning; wasn't that familiar? :-). Just beautiful, particularly the techniques used which enhanced the graphics that much more.

The only very minor gripes I have are the difficulty level. This is really, really nitpicking, but I really only fought 1 very hard boss and a couple of others that were challenges. I prefer a bit more difficulty in games, but the games wasn't easy by any means. It wasn't a big problem like in Symphony or PDS where there really wasn't any hard parts. It was just easier than it should of been. To me, difficulty is a minor issue and it didn't affect my view of any of those games very much. The experiences were too damned good. Also, the Element system was fairly stagnant for the first 13 hours or so of the game. I was very worried this game was gonna turn out to be another Xenogears, which had such a promising battle system but ended up shallow at the end. Thankfully, I was very, very wrong, but the Elements should have been more useful early on.

Again, any grips I have are extrememly minor and don't take away from the incredible experience I had with this game in the 43 hours I spent on it. If there's any RPG you should have for your PSX, it's this one. Considering it's only $20 US brand new now, there's no reason whatsoever you should deprive yourself of such an amazing gaming experience. This game is as close to perfection you can get in its genre, a feat only 3 other RPGs have reached IMO. The fact that its prequel was one of those three makes it even more amazing that it could reach this plateau when it had so damned much to live up to. If only all amazing games had such amazing sequels (sorry, couldn't pass up that rib on FF7 :-)</div>
 #27872  by Don
 Fri Apr 05, 2002 5:20 am
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>That means you get one Healing Wind and one Heal All plus the items.

I'm of the camp that the ties between CC and CT is extremely weak and altogether pointless. I didn't really care what Lucca Ashtear had to say about the humanity or whatever. In fact I'd say CC's portrayal of the CT cast is extremely bad. I ended up hating Lucca Ashtear by the end of the CC and didn't really care much about what happened to Sarah (Schala) Zeal.

I agree with my friend is that the game doesn't make sense whether you understand it or not. The ending was great. The early game was good. But everything from after Kid left your party to pretty much the ending scene is just one random stuff tossed after another. I have seen the script for Radical Dreamers which this game is based off and it just didn't work when Kid left and the whole story lost focus from there. If it isn't supposed to be a copy of Radical Dreamers then the story shouldn't have focused so heavily on Kid and Serge in the beginning.</div>

 #27873  by Zeus
 Fri Apr 05, 2002 10:38 am
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Yeah, using only those Elements would make it much harder. I also can't agree on the storyline problems, I didn't see a problem with it. Ties to CT, I thought, were done as well as they could have been.</div>

 #27874  by Kupek
 Fri Apr 05, 2002 10:57 am
<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>As far as gameplay goes, what about FF9?</div>
 #27875  by kent
 Fri Apr 05, 2002 11:46 am
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>worse of any RPG i ever played. i did play CT and i thought it was a good game but unlike most people here i don't think CT was the greatest ever.

the story in CC was pretty good and the characters were good too but i felt the game tried to force feed itself into the CT storyline. i never ever gave a rat's ass about Schala in CT so i went through the later parts of CC with the "why the hell should i care mentality?" and they never gave me a good reason.</div>
 #27876  by Gone to Shakers
 Fri Apr 05, 2002 2:18 pm
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Speaking of which, have you played through Skies of Arcadia yet? Of all the RPG's I've played, this one is currently my pick as the best one available.

Chrono Trigger, I know some Enix people had something to do with it, I always liked that game, its probably more similar to an Enix game than a Squaresoft game, the world, the Story, the plot twists are the same sort of thing you'll find in a lot of Enix games. About Xenogears, the reason I liked the battle system is because it was much more simple than a lot of Squares other games, I didn't like the complexity of Final Fantasy 8's engine, to me, that is mostly just a waste of time. Can you have strategic battles with a simple system? Yeah, look at Earthbound, Final Fantasy Tactics, Dragon Warrior 3, and Skies of Arcadia, now, these games are all much more strategic than the complex Final Fantasy 8.</div>

 #27878  by Derithian
 Fri Apr 05, 2002 10:59 pm
<div style='font: italic bold 14pt ; text-align: center; '>Is it just me or did you get the feeling that skies of arcadia really felt like it's how a chrono trigger sequal should have been done. I don't know why but it felt a lot like CT. More than CC ever did. But maybe that's just me</div>
 #27879  by Don
 Sat Apr 06, 2002 5:34 am
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Ever since I first played Skies the same thing has came to my mind as well. I think that's because they're one of the few games out there that doesn't have any 'loser' moments. Sure there are sad parts, and sure the characters are far from perfect, but they don't spend their time contemplating how much they suck. Games nowaday seems to highlight on the losers over the heroes. It's a welcoming change when you've a story that isn't about how much the supposed heroes suck, but actually how well the heroes managed to save this world.</div>
 #27880  by Don
 Sat Apr 06, 2002 5:37 am
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>You really don't get much out of the equip ability thing. In the beginning unless you go hardcore leveling you won't have a lot of abilities anyway. Later on, most of your ability points is locked up in status prevention since those screw you up very badly, so there's very little customization available.</div>

 #27882  by Zeus
 Sat Apr 06, 2002 11:32 am
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Haven't touched a FF games since FF7, gotta get the disappointment out of me first. Xenogears and CC (and the summer of 2000) helped give me faith in Square after a really bad 1997 and early '98</div>

 #27883  by Zeus
 Sat Apr 06, 2002 11:34 am
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>To each his own. Personally, I couldn't have imagined the storyline to tie into CT as well as it did and to be the second-best Square story I've seen (behind Xeno, of course)</div>

 #27884  by Zeus
 Sat Apr 06, 2002 11:35 am
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>From what I gather, FF9 is well-liked by a lot of people, so maybe the lack of complexity and return to the old-school gaming was a good thing?</div>

 #27885  by Zeus
 Sat Apr 06, 2002 11:37 am
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Haven't gotten to Skies yet, it is one of the ones on my list. I have such a damned huge backlog it's scary. Eventually, hopefully before the PS2 one comes out (been delayed to next year, 'Cube one still this year)</div>

 #27886  by Kupek
 Sat Apr 06, 2002 11:50 am
<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>So? It's still fun gameplay.</div>

 #27887  by Torgo
 Sat Apr 06, 2002 1:00 pm
<div style='font: 9pt Arial; text-align: left; '>I was a little disappointed with the story because I didn't like the way they linked it to CT. But after playing it again, it started to make more sense, and I realized it would have been better as a standalone game. The gameplay does rock, though.</div>

 #27888  by Torgo
 Sat Apr 06, 2002 1:15 pm
<div style='font: 9pt Arial; text-align: left; '>Yes and no. You couldn't customize your characters as much, but it made battles more interesting since who you had in your party actually mattered.</div>

 #27893  by Zeus
 Sat Apr 06, 2002 9:56 pm
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>What I thought was great about it is you could play it as a standalone game and it was a great story but for those who played CT, the tie-ins were great</div>

 #27894  by Zeus
 Sat Apr 06, 2002 9:58 pm
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>My point exactly. My two fav RPGs from the 32-bit machines where PDS and CC, which added simple stuff to the gameplay but those simple things added so much more strategy. All these complex changes sometimes are too much at once</div>

 #27895  by Blotus
 Sat Apr 06, 2002 10:52 pm
<div style='font: 10pt "arial narrow"; text-align: left; padding: 0% 5% 0% 5%; '>Characters and plot are terrible, and terribly clichéd. You won't notice if you don't think, though. Still, the game as a whole is pretty good. People who scorn FF7 and 8 for trying different things seem to like it.</div>
 #27896  by Torgo
 Sun Apr 07, 2002 12:49 am
<div style='font: 9pt Arial; text-align: left; '>Like I said, for those who loved CT and were expecting a direct sequel (like me...), it was pretty much a slap in the face. I thought it was satisfying, yet it was also kind of depressing at the same time...See spoiler message for details...

As for Chrono Break, I think it has the potential to be a fun game, I just won't be expecting much from the story as a sequel to CC or CT.

<b>Spoiler Message:<b>
<span style="background: black; color: black;">I didn't really like how the game killed off most of the main CT characters. I mean, Robo's introduced for a minute, but then he gets shut down for good. Crono, Lucca, and Marle are around, but they're ghosts. Magus isn't mentioned anywhere else in the game except for the ending.</span></div>

 #27897  by Stephen
 Sun Apr 07, 2002 1:04 am
<div style='font: 10pt Arial; text-align: left; '>Yeah, I've noticed that. I've found that if someone loves FF VI, yet hates VII and VIII, then there's about a 90% chance he likes IX. Maybe it's the old-school airships.</div>

 #27898  by Torgo
 Sun Apr 07, 2002 3:13 am
<div style='font: 9pt Arial; text-align: left; '>I have mixed fellings on FFIX's story and character department.. I mean, it was pretty light hearted and had a lot of cliches and Deus Ex Machinas, but I have to admit that Vivi's part was well written. I'd probably say that he's my favorite character out of the entire series.</div>

 #27899  by Eric
 Sun Apr 07, 2002 3:20 am
<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>Well I think FFIV kicks ass, FFV wasn't as good as IV, FFVI was given to much credit, FFVII was my fav. FFVIII sucked ass. FFIX was enjoyable after FFVIII, and FFX was A+ material in all departments.</div>

 #27900  by Eric
 Sun Apr 07, 2002 3:22 am
<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>The characters are freakin refreshing after having to deal with Squall's depressing, I don't give a damn, Columbine kid attitude.</div>

 #27902  by Zeus
 Sun Apr 07, 2002 6:02 am
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>I agree cameos would have ruled and if they set the game 50 years in the future instead of 20 it would have been a little easier to swallow, but to me, these are such minor complaints. Hell, the majority of the CT tie-ins are sidequests anyways</div>

 #27903  by Zeus
 Sun Apr 07, 2002 6:03 am
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Scorn FF7/8 for trying new stuff? Never, that's what we need. The execution, on the other hand....</div>

 #27904  by Zeus
 Sun Apr 07, 2002 6:05 am
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>I haven't played FF8 yet, but I tend to like the "old school" games more simply because of the polish. Too many newer games try to change a lot - which I praise - but the execution and polish of the 16-bit days aren't there, just the rare titles like PDS and CT</div>

 #27905  by Blotus
 Sun Apr 07, 2002 11:37 am
<div style='font: 10pt "arial narrow"; text-align: left; padding: 0% 5% 0% 5%; '>Zoos, we all know you're just a hate-filled NintendHo.</div>
 #27906  by Gone to Shakers
 Sun Apr 07, 2002 12:50 pm
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>FF7 suffered from the fact that the best part of the game by far was the beginning. Overall, the whole game after that was about chasing Sephiroth and the plot dragged on and on and on and on.... Nothing much happened, and anything major that did happen, like Aeris's death seamed fairly pointless. There weren't any major plot twists that added to the game at all, the gameplay was fairly average, if anything, it was a step back from Final Fantasy III. As far as characters go, Cloud is probably the worst main character in any of Squares post 94 games that I can think of, he's boring and acts like a coward, they should have made him a silent character like Crono. I've seen this game finished, but I didn't actually finish it myself.

FF8 suffered from the slow movement and battle system that was generally a pain in the ass. Overall, the plot and characters were much better done than FF7, the music and graphics were better as well. I didn't actually finish this game, I stopped playing it and got into some other game, I forget what now. I'd really like to finish it some day.

FF9 actually managed to fix all of the problems of FF8 and 7, it took all the good parts of the battle engine in Final Fantasy III, FF7, and FF8, and combined them into a working battle system that wasn't a pain in the ass. The plot was solid, the music and graphics were on par with FF8, and the Characters were actually interesting. The game overall seamed much more polished and refined than 7 or 8, I wouldn't really consider it to be similar to Final Fantasy III though as some have mentioned before; the only thing it has in common with Final Fantasy III is that the game is actually fun to play through. Also, for long time fans of the series like myself, it's a nice treat to finally have the story of the orriginal Final Fantasy wrapped up. This is the only game that really has anything to do with any of the previous games.</div>
 #27907  by Gone to Shakers
 Sun Apr 07, 2002 3:27 pm
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>This guy is bad
<img src="http://www.rpgamer.com/games/arcadia/so ... 0/bg65.jpg">


But this guy is EVIL!!!
<img src="http://www.rpgamer.com/games/arcadia/so ... 0/bg09.jpg">


Our Hero Air Pirates find a treasure Map
<img src="http://www.rpgamer.com/games/arcadia/so ... 0/bg23.jpg">


Scene from a border town of the Valuan Empire in the Mid Oceans
<img src="http://www.rpgamer.com/games/arcadia/so ... 0/bg07.jpg">


Your father and his crew, you'll get to know all of them
<img src="http://www.rpgamer.com/games/arcadia/so ... 0/bg35.jpg">


This is Fina, she's mysterious
<img src="http://www.rpgamer.com/games/arcadia/so ... 0/bg58.jpg">


This is Gilder, he has a large appetite for women
<img src="http://www.rpgamer.com/games/arcadia/so ... 0/bg20.jpg">


These women all want Muff Daddy Gilder
<img src="http://www.rpgamer.com/games/arcadia/so ... 0/bg34.jpg">



All in all, Skies of Arcadia is a nice blend of comedy, positive characters, beautiful graphics and music, the biggest 3D world in an RPG that's not Quest 64 or Aidyn Chronicles, simple battle system though there is one part of the game where you might learn to hate random battles (lets just say its a very large ocean and a jungle paradise right after, but aside from that, not much to worry about, in fact, after that the game gets MUCH better than it was before, that's when it finally picks up), the plot is unrivalled, a larger than normal cast of characters (there's about 70 or 80 who have significant roles), one of the longest RPG's available. All in all, I'd say that the game is as fun as RPG's get nowadays, though there is room for improvement in this game, the next title I'd say, if they choose to fix the faults of the first one could be considered Game of the Year. So far it's been announced that there will be at least 3 titles in the series. If you don't have a Dreamcast, the game is supposed to be out before the end of this calendar year on Gamecube, and fall of 2003 on PS2 if you don't have a Gamecube.</div>

 #27908  by Kupek
 Sun Apr 07, 2002 5:06 pm
<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>Something that bothered me was that if this is supposed to be 20 years after the events in CT (at 1000 AD, at least), why does it look nothing like the world(s) of CT?</div>
 #27909  by Don
 Sun Apr 07, 2002 6:12 pm
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>It's an artificial world created by Fate separated from the Continent where CT takes place.

Of course that just begs the question that if the two world has nothing to do with each other, why are they brought together.</div>

 #27910  by Zeus
 Sun Apr 07, 2002 8:43 pm
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>You don't have to convince me of Skies. I'm a big Phantasy Star fan and this was made by the same team, plus I've heard how much people love it. After I'm finished with CC and Valkyrie Profile, it's next</div>

 #27911  by Zeus
 Sun Apr 07, 2002 8:45 pm
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Continental shifting?</div>

 #27912  by Zeus
 Sun Apr 07, 2002 8:47 pm
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Of course, it helps explain my recent praising of classic Nintendo games like CC and PDS</div>

 #27916  by Mr.Person
 Mon Apr 08, 2002 12:07 am
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>FF9: Homage to Previous Games in the Series.</div>