Naruto 127-128...

[Zeus]

Gaara-Kimimaru fight was pretty good, I'll have to admit. Gaara looks like he could be much more dangerous now that he's controlled and Kimimaru is a pretty cool character with a pretty good background.

I'm hoping we see some seriously plot and action with the Naruto/Sasuke fight now that it's the only one left and they've gotten past the background history of it. Just fight dammit. I know they need to kill some time to wait for the manga, but man, get some movement going here (yes, it's as much about me not wanting to wait, but they are dragging their feet a little; it happened during the Chuunin exam as well, but I didn't have to suffer week to week then :-)

[M'k'n'zy]

Eh the fight wont start just yet. If you watched the preview they showed that next ep is going to be backstory of Itachi and Sasuke.

[Eric]

Yeah in the manga it was 3-4weeks of Sasuke backstory. >_> We'll see how the anime handles it.

[Gentz]

You won't be disappointed with the Sasuke backstory, I'll tell you that much. It's way more than just filler.

[SineSwiper]

That's the thing: I thought we already had the backstory.

[M'k'n'zy]

Nowhere near to it, there is a whole lot more to the whole Itachi thing. The next episode will defidently be very interesting.

[SineSwiper]

They usually do these shit right before the guy is going to die, though I doubt this would be the case this time. Probably would end in a draw.

[Zeus]

It's probably signifying a lot of the future storyline, now that they're pushing Sasuke as Orochimaru's bitch. I mean, they're already killled off snake-boy's other 5 bitches, so there's very little chance he's turning back (to being good). They want to justify what they're doing for the next couple years worth of eps. Besides, it's one of the things that makes Naruto good, is that they actually flush out each of the characters, give them real personalities and not just have a whole whack of cannon fodder with 6 main characters.

It's just annoying as hell having to wait week to week on it :-)

[SineSwiper]

Besides, it's one of the things that makes Naruto good, is that they actually flush out each of the characters, give them real personalities and not just have a whole whack of cannon fodder with 6 main characters.

Yeah, but every time they do that, it's like "Okay, this dude's gotta die, because they're doing this stupid little backstory bullshit." Frankly, I don't care about backstory from a character that's going to die. It's a waste of time because well, he's going to die, so who the hell cares about his history?

I'm sure the Sasuke thing will actually be good backstory, but it's like that stuff with Kimimaru, well, he's going to die just because of the backstory. It removes any sort of suspense with the whole thing. It's even worse when they do it to Konona's characters. I mean, that could have been a great surprise, and they fucking ruin it with the obvious.

[Eric]

Sine shut up, watch the episodes and smile. To be perfectly frank other then Kimimaru you really don't know who's dead.

[Gentz]

That backstory-before-death is mainly just anime filler, actually. The manga didn't show a single panel of Kimimaro's past - Orochimaru just mentioned something about the Kaguya clan getting wiped out because they thought any conflict could be won by brute strength.

[M'k'n'zy]

And sad but true they need some filler. I have heard that when they finish what has been dubbed "Naruto part 1" from the manga, they are either goign to do a years worth of filler or a years break.

[SineSwiper]

I think they started the anime too soon from the manga. Yeah, catch its popularity before it dies, but I didn't think DBZ had this problem.

As far as people I know who are dead: Haku, Zabuza, Kimimaru and the Five Sounds, Honage. I'm fine with backstory if it's a character that has been in the show for a while, like Garaa. But, Haku? I didn't really care enough about him to have close to 3 episodes worth of backstory just to see him die afterwards. Same with Kimimaru.

I guess with anime filler, I could understand, but it does feel like it's out of place most of the time.

[M'k'n'zy]

I dont know for sure but I think DBZ had problems as well. Considering how much filler is in there as well, they were probally letting the manga get ahead there too.

[Zeus]

I think they started the anime too soon from the manga. Yeah, catch its popularity before it dies, but I didn't think DBZ had this problem.

As far as people I know who are dead: Haku, Zabuza, Kimimaru and the Five Sounds, Honage. I'm fine with backstory if it's a character that has been in the show for a while, like Garaa. But, Haku? I didn't really care enough about him to have close to 3 episodes worth of backstory just to see him die afterwards. Same with Kimimaru.

I guess with anime filler, I could understand, but it does feel like it's out of place most of the time.

If it is filler, it's very good filler. I'm personally sick and tired of having all these cool characters come in and out and barely know anything about them other than they're strong or cool. It was the backstory that they built with Haku and Zabuze that hooked me onto the series to begin with. You have these cool characters with great character development and your main guys are fighting them. You know why they're strong, why they do what they do, and how overcoming these characters is actually an accomplishment. Character development is essentially for a long-running series, otherwise it's just eye-candy filler.

If they all of a sudden had a big fight between Jiraya and Itachi and Itachi died, it wouldn't be nearly as cool as Haku and Zabuze 'cause we really don't know too much about Itachi other than he killed his clan, left Sasuke alive, and is a part of a super clan now that wants Naruto. He's very powerful (see what he did to Kakashi) and that's about it.

It's the strong character development for so many characters (and fairly well done development, IMO) that separates the series. Otherwise, it would be like a bunch of Aoi's they're fighting, and that was the worst arc of the series by far IMO. Now that was pure filler, a whole side story they came up with. That was just boring. Thank God it was only 5 eps

[M'k'n'zy]

I think they started the anime too soon from the manga. Yeah, catch its popularity before it dies, but I didn't think DBZ had this problem.

As far as people I know who are dead: Haku, Zabuza, Kimimaru and the Five Sounds, Honage. I'm fine with backstory if it's a character that has been in the show for a while, like Garaa. But, Haku? I didn't really care enough about him to have close to 3 episodes worth of backstory just to see him die afterwards. Same with Kimimaru.

I guess with anime filler, I could understand, but it does feel like it's out of place most of the time.

If it is filler, it's very good filler. I'm personally sick and tired of having all these cool characters come in and out and barely know anything about them other than they're strong or cool. It was the backstory that they built with Haku and Zabuze that hooked me onto the series to begin with. You have these cool characters with great character development and your main guys are fighting them. You know why they're strong, why they do what they do, and how overcoming these characters is actually an accomplishment. Character development is essentially for a long-running series, otherwise it's just eye-candy filler.

If they all of a sudden had a big fight between Jiraya and Itachi and Itachi died, it wouldn't be nearly as cool as Haku and Zabuze 'cause we really don't know too much about Itachi other than he killed his clan, left Sasuke alive, and is a part of a super clan now that wants Naruto. He's very powerful (see what he did to Kakashi) and that's about it.

It's the strong character development for so many characters (and fairly well done development, IMO) that separates the series. Otherwise, it would be like a bunch of Aoi's they're fighting, and that was the worst arc of the series by far IMO. Now that was pure filler, a whole side story they came up with. That was just boring. Thank God it was only 5 eps

Yeah the Aoi bit was bad. I feel the same way you do on this, and in fact I think that in writing the manga, he planed for this. You have to remember this part of the manga was written with the realization that the anime was quickly closing in. There were a lot of points where he would mention a couple things about diffrent characters backgrounds, and then leave it. That was probally done for the puropse of giving the anime some filler room to flesh that all out.

On a side note, I was kinda sad to not get more backstory on the other members of the Sound 5. I really liked Tayuya and Kidomaru, but we never got any details about their past. I wish we could have found out how Kidomaru ended up with 2 extra pairs of arms.

[SineSwiper]

It has to do with the location of the backstory. I thought putting in Haku and Zabuza in the middle of Kimimaru backstory was kinda cool, but we already know what happens to them, so no sense of forwardstory is ruined.

It ruins the pace of the fighting, too. Seriously ruins it. It's like fucking a chick and then pulling out in the middle of it to tell your life story for 30 fucking minutes. Now, if they had put in some backstory OUTSIDE of the fighting, it wouldn't ruin the outcome of a future battle, and it wouldn't ruin the pace of the fighting. Problem solved. If this was a movie, it would be Hulk: science, talking, blah blah blah, fast-forward, HULK ANGRY, HULK SMASH, okay back to talking, more science, boring shit here, fast-forward, HULK ANGRY, ACTION GOOD, TALKING BAD.

Besides, I disagree with trying to flesh out minor enemy characters. There is no point to character development if that investment is going to be wasted a few minutes later. I could give a shit that Ninja #27's favorite food was ginger soup and commonly suffers from toothaches. I like backstory, but I prefer them on the major characters, and not as a dead giveaway to their death.

[Eric]

DBZ had ALOT of filler, the Frieza vs Goku fight was like 1 chaper per episode!

Then later we got that crappy Garlic Junior saga.

[Gentz]

This is one of those rare times when Sine's ranting is 100% on the money. I'm scared. Someone hold me.

I wish we could have found out how Kidomaru ended up with 2 extra pairs of arms.

I think it's just that the Naruto-verse's definition of "human" isn't very strict. Naruto takes a cue from Toriyama in that regard. Take the Akatsuki, for one...

[Zeus]

Like I said, for me, these backstories is what makes the series great. Otherwise, you'd just have a bunch of badasses getting killed by the good guys and that's it. It would get boring after a while.

I think Sine's starting to get annoyed at waiting week to week like I was. I don't recall this bitching when he was going through the Chuunin exam, in which there was A TON of recapping and filler inbetween the fight sequences. Like me, you just downloaded the next 10 episode chunk and got past it later that night or the next day. NOw that you have to wait week to week (or two weeks sometimes), it's fucking irritating

[Zeus]

Sine shut up, watch the episodes and smile. To be perfectly frank other then Kimimaru you really don't know who's dead.

You're fairly certain that the fat guy, spider guy, and molded-with-brother guy are dead. There's a chance that foul-mouthed chick is still alive, but not much of one. Same with Choji. Neji there's a possibility since that seal on his head didn't disappear when he "died", like it's supposed to.

Dammit, Shizune better show up soon.....

[Gentz]

Like I said, for me, these backstories is what makes the series great. Otherwise, you'd just have a bunch of badasses getting killed by the good guys and that's it. It would get boring after a while.

Well, your opinion is your opinion, but there is a big difference (or maybe it was a fine line...i can't remember) between character development and contrivance. Por ejemplo:

Character Development: Naruto and Sasuke are polar opposites who develop a rivalry which eventually becomes a strong friendship. This friendship becomes tenuous when Sasuke perceives that Naruto is surpassing him, and eventually jealousy overcomes him and they find themselves fighting on opposite sides once more.

Contrivance: Some dude appears before the heroes. We learn that this dude was part of some massive slaughter of a village or something and so now he's a badass, even though this has nothing to do with the overarching plot. Then they kill the dude. The end.

[Eric]

Sine shut up, watch the episodes and smile. To be perfectly frank other then Kimimaru you really don't know who's dead.

You're fairly certain that the fat guy, spider guy, and molded-with-brother guy are dead. There's a chance that foul-mouthed chick is still alive, but not much of one. Same with Choji. Neji there's a possibility since that seal on his head didn't disappear when he "died", like it's supposed to.

Dammit, Shizune better show up soon.....

Again you know nothing. Now shhhh. lol.

[Zeus]

Well, I don't read the manga, I'm just speculating...that's part of the fun of it :-)

[M'k'n'zy]

hehe you should read the manga, the speculation for Naruto Part 2 is better than anything taht could be done here ^_^

[SineSwiper]

I'd rather be surprised with the full effect of the anime. The music, animation, et all, seem to flow much better. Not that I don't like comics, but the cartoon form, especially if it's accurate to the comic, just has more elements to it.

[Zeus]

The show is so well done and is almost caught up to the manga, so there's not really much benefit IMO.

[M'k'n'zy]

Well I started into the manga back when they were still into the Chunin Exam for the anime so I have been reading it a long time ^_^ Also reading the manga, if they do decide to take a one year break before starting part 2, I will still be able to get a weekly fix of Naruto ^_^

[Zeus]

If the show takes a one year break, I'll start reading the manga FOR SURE

[M'k'n'zy]

Heh even if it doesn't take a break we get a years worth of filler. I would say read the manga as soon as this arc is over. Filler is generally terrible.