The Other Worlds Shrine

Your place for discussion about RPGs, gaming, music, movies, anime, computers, sports, and any other stuff we care to talk about... 

  • Two minor things about RPGs

  • Because playing them is not enough, we have to bitch about them daily, too. We had a Gameplay forum, but it got replaced by GameFAQs.
Because playing them is not enough, we have to bitch about them daily, too. We had a Gameplay forum, but it got replaced by GameFAQs.
 #95400  by Don
 Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:47 am
Both are inspired while playing Wild Arms Code F, but not necessarily that related to the game...

First, ever since about FF7 we decided in RPG it's not that good of a idea for your hero to swing a sword, and then have the slash magically hit the enemy across space. So, in most RPGs we have our characters doing some animation that involves running up to the enemy. But, since it is mandated by heaven that enemies and heroes have to always stand in a fixed position, that means you can't just have our heroes stay by the enemy after running up to them. Therefore, our heroes always magically hop/run/teleport back to where they started after running up to the enemy.

This is, of course, a very minor thing, but it has always been very immersive breaking for me. There are some games that try to break away from them (WA:ACF being one of them), and I think Skies of Arcadia handles it best by keeping everything in the same position as their animation look like, but adding the idle attack/defend animation so it doesn't look like your heroes are just standing by the enemy having a nice chat until you execute the next command. Anything that gives the facade that in these battles there is actually movement and action, as opposed to a 'your turn my turn' deal, I think, is a step in the right direction. A real time game like Star Ocean would not have this problem, but most RPGs are still turn-based. This doesn't seem like a terribly hard thing to do, and I don't think you can get worse than the magic hop back to formation that just about every RPG does.

Second, most RPGs seem to be going on the trend of doing away with equipment and money. It's certainly been a while since I played a game where you need money for anything or equipment actually matters beyond filling some quota of secrets to discover for replay value. Now maybe this is an arachic concept that only stalls the game that should be done away with like mazes. But what do we have in replace of these timesinks? The RPGs of today are certainly longer than they were before, so it's not like we're losing the old ways to make way for some new innovative gameplay. In that case, why not let us level up to buy equipment and whatnot? While relatively few people enjoy crawling through mazes, it's safe to say that a lot of people do enjoy item collecting, stat building, and so on. Games like Diablo 2, after all, pretty much only exists as an item collecting/stat building game. In a game like Grandia, what drives the game isn't the story (at least I'd like to think it's not, because it's pretty bad) but the fact that if you play more you get your sword level 30 or wind level 25 abilities, and you get that you can work on the level 31 sword ability and so on.

Besides, most games just end up recreating an item based game with a different name. Instead of getting a new powerful weapon it'd be 3 Strength+4 spheres in FFX or junctioning Ultima to strength in FF8, and I think most of us rather see that our ability to kill stuff gone up significantly because of our new shiny sword as opposed to some obscure system that ends up accomplishing the same thing. In Wild Arms, when Cecilia understands what love is she also gets the Love Rune that greatly increases her stats and turns her into an instant powerhouse. In the remixed version, there is an equipment-less system so the expected power jump is simply integrated into her levels. While the two characters in both game might be similarly powerful, I think it is a lot more meaningful to see a character change noticeably in the original Wild Arms, as opposed to the equipment-less system of the remix that has no choice but to just integrate the power increases into the levels themselves.

If someone has a great idea to replace the equipment system of character progression, by all means go for it. But so far this doesn't appear the case, and if developers can't think of anything interesting, I rather have a system where getting a new sword makes me powerful as opposed to whatever crazy things they can conjure up. Likewise, I like getting money and buy new stuff, and if there is no compelling reason to make money meaningless, then I'd like to have the option of money being meaningful.

 #95402  by Kupek
 Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:03 am
A trend that I've noticed is that pivotal plot-point battles often give you no experience, while in older RPGs, you'd get a lot.

 #95404  by Julius Seeker
 Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:26 am
Despite the negative critisism here that the system is getting, I really like the concepts that have been put forward so far in the FF12 demo. Keep in mind that it's not completely refined since the demo is identical to an old Japanese demo released like a year ago.
Last edited by Julius Seeker on Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

 #95405  by Julius Seeker
 Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:27 am
As far as stat building goes, I generally find it to be a huge pain in the ass except in certain games (FF8, FFT, FF10 come to mind). I do like FFT's and FF8's AP systems where you get points for certain skills, and master/learn them over time.

The best development system I have ever seen is Vagrant Story.

For equipment, it never really bothered me how it was done. I prefered Skies of Arcadia's system where you could select the attribute of the weapon. The idea of buying equipment in Skies of Arcadia, like most other RPGs doesn't seem to mean anything to me anymore; it doesn't matter to me whether I have a long sword or an Iron sword if the only difference is that one is a bit stronger than the other. In games like Fire Emblem where each weapon actually does have attributes which matter, that is different; for example, an Iron Sword would be your basic weapon whereas a long sword would have an attack bonus vs. mounted units.

And as far as immersiveness in the battles go; I did like how Skies of Arcadia did it; it did add a lot more livliness to the battles; particularly the boss battles. Unfortunately in the original version while outside (and in a couple of dungeons, Moonstone Mountain comes to mind) the encounter rate was too high and a lot of the time people just want to get the battle over with; not me, but I have a high tolerance rate for this sort of thing, even if I do much prefer Earthbound's system (enemies on the screen, they run away if you're too strong and die automatically if you encounter them).

Anyways, as far as RPGs go, like I mentioned above, Vagrant Story is as close to perfection as I have ever seen.