The sad and pathetic attempts of the car industry...

[SineSwiper]

Here we are in the new age of car commercials. Only six months ago, all of the commercials were talking about how "It's not more power than you need, just more power than you're used to." The Hummer was talking about their new H3. And while cars like the Prius were flying off the lot, there just wasn't a sense that, at least publically, that the rest of the car industry cared. The commercials still reflected that "big car = big dick" persona.

Now, the public reaches this magic $4/gal number. They weren't concerned when gas was $1/gal or $2/gal or even $3/gal, but suddenly it's $4/gal and everything somehow changes. Everybody is talking about how gas is NOW too expensive, even expensive enough to actually *GASP* change their habits. People are actually considering buying motorcycles or hybrids. Hummer is on the verge of going bankrupt, and in a few years time, we will be down to two US car companies.

Now, every car commercial is talking about their gas mileage, their magical MPG. You literally can't see a car commercial (besides maybe a few of the luxary cars) that doesn't advertise its MPG. But, this isn't a sudden change in technology. Besides the hybrids, the cars haven't changed. It takes years to develop a new line of cars. The commercials have changed, and this lag between the two has created something like this:

Okay, I can't find a video for it, but it's for a 2008 Buick Lucerne. It starts out with some guy talking near a pump and saying "These days the only thing that matters is this number" (pointing at the pump price after a fill up). He talks about how the Buick Lucerne gets higher highway gas mileage than this Chrysler 300 Touring Edition. The fine print as he's saying this is actually pretty clear to read, as the font is bigger than your typical fine print. It says:

"25 MPG 2008 EPA estimated highway" (showing the Buick)
"2008 EPA estimated mileage: 24 hwy" (showing the Chrysler)

Yes, this is the new low. Comparing a single MPG higher on a car with a shitty fuel economy to begin with, especially with two cars that nobody gives a flying fuck about.

Can you smell the desperation in the air?

[Tessian]

You look at all of that and you see desperation... really?? What color are the glasses you wear that show you this distorted view of reality??

It has nothing to do with desperation; it's just smart marketing-- a year ago people cared about power and safety features (remember us going safety feature crazy 1-2 years ago? Now most of the interior of your car is a freakin air bag) so that's what the commercials focused on. Now the big concern is mileage so that's what the commercials focus on. That's all, what's the big deal?

[Don]

The US car industry is getting hammered pretty hard with the recent increase in gas price.

[Tessian]

The US car industry is getting hammered pretty hard with the recent increase in gas price.

Yeah that's what happens when you focus on one line of vehicles which in this case is huge trucks and SUVs. Must suck to know that your foreign competitors were right all along and you're (US manufacturers) a bunch of idiots who through your eggs to too few baskets

[SineSwiper]

Yeah that's what happens when you focus on one line of vehicles which in this case is huge trucks and SUVs. Must suck to know that your foreign competitors were right all along and you're (US manufacturers) a bunch of idiots who through your eggs to too few baskets

You single-handedly answered your own question with your contradictory replies. The big three are losing billions of dollars each quarter (while Toyota is winning big). And their answer to trying to stop this hemorrhaging is to put out commercials that talk about how their shitty car is 1 MPG higher than the competitor's?

Yes, I call that desperation. The public isn't going to fall for it, and it's laughable that they are trying this hard. It's just as desperate as those American Petroleum Industries commercials that try to convince us that big oil is working better for you, is making just as much profits as any other company, and has plenty of oil leftover. Nobody is falling for it.

What I AM paying attention to is companies like Konarka.

[Flip]

I believe in the pickens plans.

http://www.pickensplan.com/

Pickens is a 70 y/o oil man who is worth billions, yet wants to move away from it with a combination of Natural Gas, wind, and solar to drastically reduce dependency on foreign oil, or even eliminate it.

[Ishamael]

Can you smell the desperation in the air?

If you just lost almost $10 billion in a quarter, you'd be desperate too.

[Ishamael]

I believe in the pickens plans.

http://www.pickensplan.com/

Pickens is a 70 y/o oil man who is worth billions, yet wants to move away from it with a combination of Natural Gas, wind, and solar to drastically reduce dependency on foreign oil, or even eliminate it.

Hey, what about ethanol?!!! (joke)

[Zeus]

Just read yesterday that Quebec and BC have approved plans to allow electric cars on their roads....up to a maximum of 50km/h (about 37 mph). Only for "low-speed vehicles" or some shit like that. They actually have to have an orange "we're fucking slow" sign on the back of the car. The reason, apparently, is because "electric cars aren't safe" as they don't mean all of the safety standards.

My first impression was "if we had electric cars on the road in Cali 12 years ago, what the fuck is this"? I think it may be related to the fact that these ain't traditional car companies that are doing them (can't remember the names) and they're just not up to snuff when it comes to the safety standards, electric or not. I seriously doubt it's an issue to make a "normal" car with all safety standards intact....particularly if they had it 12 years ago. But hey, a start's a start I guess.

On a side note, Ontario is spending something like $40 mil to study whether or not they should allow it. Yeah, 'cause that hasn't already been done or anything. Fuck, I just want to smack some politicians around sometime.

[SineSwiper]

For once, Canadia does something stupid. You get one of those for every hundred stupid things we do.

Of course, does this apply to all electric cars, or just the ones that don't pass the safety standards?

[Zeus]

For once, Canadia does something stupid. You get one of those for every hundred stupid things we do.

Of course, does this apply to all electric cars, or just the ones that don't pass the safety standards?

The big companies aren't releasing electric cars 'cause it's a huge hit to their main revenue source (maintenance). So it's only smaller companies, which means they have to go through the ridiculous process of getting the gov't to recognize them. So this appears to be the first step to getting electric cars on the road here. I'm OK with it, I just want there to be an acceleration so that they become truly mass market and a real replacement as opposed to a worse-than-Smartcar alternative that it looks to be. That needs to happen within 5 years IMO

[Flip]

For once, Canadia does something stupid. You get one of those for every hundred stupid things we do.

Of course, does this apply to all electric cars, or just the ones that don't pass the safety standards?

The big companies aren't releasing electric cars 'cause it's a huge hit to their main revenue source (maintenance). So it's only smaller companies, which means they have to go through the ridiculous process of getting the gov't to recognize them. So this appears to be the first step to getting electric cars on the road here. I'm OK with it, I just want there to be an acceleration so that they become truly mass market and a real replacement as opposed to a worse-than-Smartcar alternative that it looks to be. That needs to happen within 5 years IMO

Ive seen so many Smartcars around lately that i finally looked them up. I thought the things probably got 50 MPG, but boy was i wrong. They are in the top 5 as far as fuel efficiency, but still not amazing for how ugly they are. I guess it iss the most efficient non-hybrid, though.

[Zeus]

For once, Canadia does something stupid. You get one of those for every hundred stupid things we do.

Of course, does this apply to all electric cars, or just the ones that don't pass the safety standards?

The big companies aren't releasing electric cars 'cause it's a huge hit to their main revenue source (maintenance). So it's only smaller companies, which means they have to go through the ridiculous process of getting the gov't to recognize them. So this appears to be the first step to getting electric cars on the road here. I'm OK with it, I just want there to be an acceleration so that they become truly mass market and a real replacement as opposed to a worse-than-Smartcar alternative that it looks to be. That needs to happen within 5 years IMO

Ive seen so many Smartcars around lately that i finally looked them up. I thought the things probably got 50 MPG, but boy was i wrong. They are in the top 5 as far as fuel efficiency, but still not amazing for how ugly they are. I guess it iss the most efficient non-hybrid, though.

They're basically useless. You can barely fit 2 Japanese people inside of them. My bud and I (each over 300lbs and 6'2" and 6'4") would have no chance. Heaven forbid you actually have friends or want to take your groceries home or something.

They're made for the cidiots who have no friends.

[Lox]

The big companies aren't releasing electric cars 'cause it's a huge hit to their main revenue source (maintenance). So it's only smaller companies, which means they have to go through the ridiculous process of getting the gov't to recognize them. So this appears to be the first step to getting electric cars on the road here. I'm OK with it, I just want there to be an acceleration so that they become truly mass market and a real replacement as opposed to a worse-than-Smartcar alternative that it looks to be. That needs to happen within 5 years IMO

Ive seen so many Smartcars around lately that i finally looked them up. I thought the things probably got 50 MPG, but boy was i wrong. They are in the top 5 as far as fuel efficiency, but still not amazing for how ugly they are. I guess it iss the most efficient non-hybrid, though.

They're basically useless. You can barely fit 2 Japanese people inside of them. My bud and I (each over 300lbs and 6'2" and 6'4") would have no chance. Heaven forbid you actually have friends or want to take your groceries home or something.

They're made for the cidiots who have no friends.

Or people who can afford to make it their work commute only car and have a second car for other stuff.

[Zeus]

Ive seen so many Smartcars around lately that i finally looked them up. I thought the things probably got 50 MPG, but boy was i wrong. They are in the top 5 as far as fuel efficiency, but still not amazing for how ugly they are. I guess it iss the most efficient non-hybrid, though.

They're basically useless. You can barely fit 2 Japanese people inside of them. My bud and I (each over 300lbs and 6'2" and 6'4") would have no chance. Heaven forbid you actually have friends or want to take your groceries home or something.

They're made for the cidiots who have no friends.

Or people who can afford to make it their work commute only car and have a second car for other stuff.

That's even a worse reason IMO. Those things are made to get around the city. The gas savings ain't enough to warrant a $16k purchase (up here) when you could get an Accent (Hyundai is much better than people think) for $10k. And that's just comparing one to the other without taking into account the additional cost of having a second car while keeping the Idiotcar just for commuting.

[SineSwiper]

The big companies aren't releasing electric cars 'cause it's a huge hit to their main revenue source (maintenance). So it's only smaller companies, which means they have to go through the ridiculous process of getting the gov't to recognize them. So this appears to be the first step to getting electric cars on the road here. I'm OK with it, I just want there to be an acceleration so that they become truly mass market and a real replacement as opposed to a worse-than-Smartcar alternative that it looks to be. That needs to happen within 5 years IMO

Chevy and Toyota are racing to make a plugin hybrid, which is basically an electric car with more fuel options. So, it's not like the big companies are not doing it because of maintenance.

How is maintenance their main revenue stream? People take their car to the dealer (for free) until it's out of warranty, then they take it to the cheaper car mechanic. There's no profit in that scenario.

[Tessian]

How is maintenance their main revenue stream? People take their car to the dealer (for free) until it's out of warranty, then they take it to the cheaper car mechanic. There's no profit in that scenario.

Free? Cheaper mechanic? How clueless are you? Warranties aren't free and most talk you into paying for the extra ones. Always included in the price of the car too. And not EVERYTHING is included in those warranties-- inspections, oil changes, accidents- they're all extra and you pretty much have to go to your dealer for most of those things or you'll void your warranty.

Also, I can bet you that the majority of people who bought their car new continue to use the dealer for work even after the warranty expires. Maintenance is a big money maker

[SineSwiper]

Warranties aren't free and most talk you into paying for the extra ones.

Warranties are part of the cost of the car. You can pay extra for a extended one, but not everybody does that.

And not EVERYTHING is included in those warranties-- inspections, oil changes, accidents- they're all extra and you pretty much have to go to your dealer for most of those things or you'll void your warranty.

If Toyota voids my warranty for taking my Prius to a goddamn Vavoline, I'll stop buying from them. Of course, oil changes are free during the warranties, so there's no reason for me to go there. Inspections are free (for a reasonable time period). Also, I think it's actually illegal for car dealerships to void your warranty for taking it to another shop. (It's definitely illegal for car dealerships to void them because of aftermarket mods, if the repair job has nothing to do with the system modded.)

Accidents are fixed by the cheapest body shop, or by the dealer USING the price of the cheapest body shop, because the claims adjuster sure as fuck ain't going to get ripped off by the dealer.

Also, I can bet you that the majority of people who bought their car new continue to use the dealer for work even after the warranty expires.

Wrong! After my warranty is expired, I go to my local mechanic. He's much cheaper and he knows almost as much as how a car works as any dealer mechanic. Most other people will feel the same way, except for the richie rich ones that don't care about money.

Also, you bring up a good point: a person sells his used car, and THAT person sure as hell isn't going to take it to the dealer. So, the dealer has already taken a loss (or broke even) with the car's maintenance.

Even if maintenance is a top driver of profit, the car companies are scrambling to jetpack out of their total free fall from billion dollar losses. The name of the game is MPG or electric, or GTFO. So, if that means taking the hit on maintenance costs, it's certainly better than hitting the pavement like a fly on a windshield. The Great Chain is slow to get there, but it's ruthless when it does.

[bovine]

is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?

[Zeus]

Well, when you take your car in for service at a dealer, only warrantied items are free. Things like oil change, brakes, tune-ups, tires, and other general maintenance ain't. Try lookin' at your manual to see what "regular" maintenance is, it ain't cheap. I always tell my bud, who's a service advisor at the biggest dealership in Canada, that I couldn't afford to "properly" maintain my car, I'd have to get a second mortgage.

Because you're under warranty for a new car, they try to suck you into the dealership. Basically, you've already got the idea in your head to take the car there to get services in case it's warrantied, so you're just automatically take it there for regular service. Then toss in the fact that MANY people thing in order to be under warranty, they HAVE to take their car to the dealer. VERY wrong, you just have to properly maintain according to the manual. Mr. Lube up here has constant ads plugging their "warranty approved" oil changes, which is bullshit cause all oil changes are warranty approved.

Dealerships also do an insane amount to get your maintenance business. On top of searching for stuff you didin't bring your car in for, they often offer free oil changes for x years to get your "addicted" to their service, they offer free shuttle service (very standard), they often have on-site cafes where you get free coffee and muffins.....you think any of this would happen if there wasn't an insane amount of profit? And that's before you even start talking about the very good profit sharing or the money they have to kick back to the manufacturer's head office (it's a percentage). It's not uncommon for a senior service advisor up here to pull in a $40-50k base salary and 50% additional in profit sharing or bonuses. You don't even need high school to do this job, just great organization and convincing (of mechanics) skills.

If you work it, you can get a new car from the dealer at $500 (or less) above their cost. That's common. Why? To get your maintenance. Make no mistake, it's a FUCKING HUGE business.

The move by Chevy and Toyota would be due to expanding the market. They can charge a premium for the car which would offset the expected maintenance per car revenue stream (note: head office charges plant who charges dealership; dealerships will still get squeeze but the manufacturer's head office will still get the money). The Prius is this way. You think that a glorified Corolla should cost $8000 more?